Looking for guidance: first build (kit only)

[rs_toronto]

Please post your pics later. I see a lot of posts from years ago that die off without the finished build getting documented. Even if just some pics and commentary of the finished product, it really does make this site a great resource to people debating whether to dip their toes into DIY or not.

Will do. I tried taking pictures during assembly, however definitely did not document every step. Also, I’ll try to gather my thoughts on “lessons learned”.

[a4eaudio]

A fulsome review with pictures to come in a couple of (months?)....

Please post your pics later. I see a lot of posts from years ago that die off without the finished build getting documented. Even if just some pics and commentary of the finished product, it really does make this site a great resource to people debating whether to dip their toes into DIY or not.

[scottvalentin]

Wow great to read, thanks for sharing your experience!

[Geoff Millar]

Glad you're so pleased with your project!

It does take a little leap of faith to go DIY when you can't audition speakers, but you can trust well known designers to deliver something special.

The Dayton RS series drivers, when handled properly in a crossover, are great sounding, great value drivers.

Pictures, please

Geoff

[rs_toronto]

I'll do a more fulsome write-up in a couple of weeks (months?), when I will complete the finish of the speakers.
However, here's a quick update on the progress. I nearly completed the build; enough to assess the sound quality.

Bottom line: because of these speakers I am rediscovering the joy of music! At this point, I lost count how many times I stayed past 2am re-listening my old CDs!

Bass that comes out of these speakers simply defies all conventional expectations. You are looking at these speakers and wondering: how is this bass even possible? Don't get me wrong: I'm not talking about the over-dominating bass. No, the bass it is perfect! Just surprising how these speakers can produce such low notes together with the rest of sound presentation. The clarity, "resolution"/micro-dynamics and realism are excellent! Much better than my floor-standing Mission. The first night, after I installed Amiga's speakers/drivers into cabinets, I must have stayed until 5am listening to music (then, I went to work on 1 hour of sleep). Amiga's ability to reveal details is a bit shocking. It has been a few weeks of listening to the "unfinished" speakers and I'm still surprised when I find yet another unusual musical nuance in the same songs that I had listened for years!

I can't believe I waited so long to "pull the trigger" on DIY speakers.

For those undecided / skeptical re DIY vs brand-name speakers, here's my 2 cents. I bought the kit (somewhat) hoping that Amiga DIY kit will allow me to get brand-name quality, but cheaper. I was wrong. Amiga's are not trying to catch-up to store/brand-name speakers, they blew past brand name speakers and set the new bar.

Second big learning [for me]: previously, I thought that all this talk about "get an amplifier + CD-player for music (vs using a home theater receiver / DVD-player)" was a bit of a snake oil. I was wrong, again. Long story short, I currently run the home theater setup via Marantz receiver (as in my original topic post). However, I'm running a "music" set-up with NAD C372 integrated amp and NAD CD-player (built in 1988?). Amigas are connected to NAD, as to my hearing, it appears that Marantz's Audissey room/microphone calibration actually makes Amigas sound worse. Anyway, maybe I'll play with Marantz settings later. For now NAD is ruling the music kingdom.

A fulsome review with pictures to come in a couple of (months?).

A huge thanks to Paul and Parts-Express team for making this kit possible!

[Geoff Millar]

I hope you have fun: just take your time, especially with assembling and soldering the crossovers, and ensure correct polarity when you wire everything up.

Geoff

[rs_toronto]

Received Amiga kit and lots of parts/tools. Looking forward to assembling the speakers! Initial reaction: cabinet kit is much heavier than I anticipated. Also, the kit comes with 3 cabinet braces (vs 1 brace on the picture) — better than anticipated. I’ll try to take pictures of the process. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rs_toronto]

Thanks everyone!
I placed an order on the Amiga kit. You are very helpful!

[djg]

I would get the Amiga, it is 8 ohms and an easy amp load. Be aware, both kits do not include screws or binding posts/terminal cups. The easiest connection solution is the simple binding posts requiring two holes in each cabinet, in my opinion.

I was going to suggest Erich H diysg, too bad no Canada ship, and Meniscus, if you could build cabs.

I like these, just need a hole drilled, long enough for 3/4" thick mat'l.

Dayton Audio BPA-38G HD Binding Post Pair Gold

[rs_toronto]

TL;DR: which one is better Samba or Amiga? Cost are approx. the same, Samba kit is now in stock.

Apologies for the delay. Work got in the way, could not respond earlier. Lots of great points! Thank you!

Let me try to answer some of your questions one by one.

Yes, looking for a kit with a flat-pack cabinet only. Don’t have the tools to do the box myself. Perhaps, in the future this will change, but for now only flat-packs.

No, not married to a floor-standing speakers idea. Bookshelf could also work.

Don’t know if Marantz SR5006 can handle 4ohms. Specs say 6-8 ohms. I could imagine that at a normal human volume level this should not be a problem. In any event, I have another amp that I could use (terrible looking rack-based stereo amp, but works). Any horror stories about using 4ohm speakers with regular amps at a human-level volume?

Room size: approx 13x20 ft, but listening area is about 13x13, then there’s a computer desk behind the listening/sofa. Hardwood floors with area rugs, etc.

Bi-amping at SR5006: in amp settings can switch from 7.2 to 5.2 amp-configuration and assign the ‘optional’ 2 channels as a second set of outputs for the front speakers. Don’t know if this bi-amping makes any difference (did not measure), but I had an extra wires — why not. As you can tell by my posts, I’m quite new at this. Feel free to tell me if I’m making a mistake.

Re speaker phasing/defective/etc. There speakers are not defective. This is my second set of Missions. I had a bookshelf set earlier — that’s how they sound. The resolution is not crystal-clear. Example: when playing Gypsy Kings on Infinity speakers I could tell that there are multiple guitars playing at the same time; I could feel it. Switching to Missions and I know that there are two guitars, but the sounds are “mashed” together. Don’t get me wrong, Missions are not bad speakers at all. They are head and shoulders above Fluance (as an example). My friend and in-laws have 5-speaker sets from Fluance: those are truly bad. No clarity, all sounds blended together. My bookshelf Missions were better that Fluance towers. So, I don’t hate Missions; simply looking for a step-up (the way Missions are step-up from Fluance).

Re other DIY providers. Happy to look at all alternatives. A bit of a limitation: not everyone delivers to Toronto, Canada. Example: Erich from DIY Sound Group can’t ship to Canada (and I’m too lazy to deal with a relay-mail services now). Meniscus(?) does not offer cabinets. Please, let me know which companies you had in mind, I’m happy to explore all options and find out whether they can ship here.

So, previously, at the time of my original post, Samba was not in stock — but now it is. Both Samba and Amiga are at approximately the same price, both are 7in drivers. Which one is better sounding? (Not looking to start a religious war, trying to understand if there will be an improvement in sound quality, as it appears that Samba is using a bit more expensive drivers).

Thanks for all your help!

--Roman

[scottvalentin]

One other item to think about regarding imaging and clarity (voice and instrument separation) are the room acoustics. If you have a hard surface floor (hardwood or tile) and walls and ceiling with no treatments, these reflections will take away from both clarity and imaging. Another good investment would be some sound treatment in the room.

Now, since I love me some DIY speakers, I would vote Amigas.

[Drjay]

Obviously, I'm a big fan of DIY speakers, but my concern is similar to that of Psychoacoustics. Your Missions have uniformly very good reviews and should sound a lot better than your description of them. Before you jump into the DIY waters and experience disappointment, it would be worthwhile to try to see if you can get a substantial improvement from the Missions. In addition to phasing, I would experiment with room placement, check to be sure all drivers are outputting sound, make sure the bi-wire jumpers are clean and tight and try them both with and without the supplied foam plugs for the ports. I well could be wrong here, but if the many glowing reports on the Missions are accurate, I doubt you would hear a substantial improvement over the missions with most affordable DIY kits and certainly not the C notes or Overnight Sensations.
Best,
Jay

[skatz]

The only thing a YouTube audition is good for is to detect a glaring peak in the response and even then, only if you are confident that all the other steps between you and the speaker are not responsible for the peak.

Dan

I certainly agree with this, that's what I meant when I said that there is a lot of technology between the listener and the music. Still I think you can discern more than just a bad peak.

[Carbon13]

I'm in mississauga if you want to hear the OS TMMs and the classixIIs. Just pm me.

[Geoff Millar]

How are you "Bi-amping" with a 7.1 receiver? A quick look at the specs for the Marantz tells me 100 WPC with ONLY 2 channels driven. If your using more than 2 of the channels to bi-amp your feeding the total speaker with less power. I think?

When you say, "The voice does not separate from the speakers" it makes me think there is a phase issue. If your not getting a solid center image in stereo you may want to insure that + from the amp is going to + on the speakers.

What is your source? I'm not familiar with Apple lossless via airplay. I too use Apple lossless but that's for files I've ripped into the computer for my iPad and iPod and generally they sound quite good.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from building new speakers. I just worry that if something 'Upstream" from the speakers may be causing you trouble,,,,,, new speakers won't help!

Good luck! Mark

+1, great idea to check the speaker phase, I hadn't thought of that

Geoff