Finalist speakers, Tower version. Advice needed concerning TL vs Ported

[Jesse055]

I have the drivers for about 18 months but have procrastinated the project(yes I even have the Dayton RS28F tweeters that have been discontinued). What I am debating is whether to go transmission line or ported. If the decision is to go TL then I noticed that I then have two choices for the TL. 1. The tapered TL on the Speakerdesignworks website, or 2. The non tapered ML-TL designed by Paul K.

Anyone heard or have any experience on the TL's vs the regular ported Finalist? Anyone have opinions on the two different TL versions?

Please help me decide and subjective opinions are welcome so don't hold back

[kenrhodes]

Do you plan on using a subwoofer with this system? Is this mostly for music or movies?

[civit]

I doubt anyone has heard all variants. I would build the MLTL without hesitation though - I've gone through a million cabinet designs for the rs225 and the MLTL Paul designed is a really elegant one.

I think in this hobby you have a responsibility to yourself to experiment with things you might not otherwise get a chance to hear. This is a good chance for you to hear a well designed TL system, along with a semi-open back midrange.

[Jesse055]

Do you plan on using a subwoofer with this system? Is this mostly for music or movies?

it will be used for the tv and music but I just want the best bass possible from a musical perspective. I can always hook up a sub for movies but I just want deep, yet accurate, and textured bass as the 225 will deliver.

[Jesse055]

I doubt anyone has heard all variants. I would build the MLTL without hesitation though - I've gone through a million cabinet designs for the rs225 and the MLTL Paul designed is a really elegant one.

I think in this hobby you have a responsibility to yourself to experiment with things you might not otherwise get a chance to hear. This is a good chance for you to hear a well designed TL system, along with a semi-open back midrange.

Thanks for your input. I agree with experimenting. About a year ago I did do a tapered TL sub enclosure for the RS225 and it does seem like I like that bass sound. But it was two folds so 3 compartments so it’s just too bulky to fit as a finalist base

[Jesse055]

[Jesse055]

Here was the experimental sub.

[Paul K.]

I designed the ML-TL for the RS225 in the Finalist back in 2014. I'm attaching the cabinet drawing (for just the TL part) and the predicted anechoic system bass response (red line) from the TL modeling. An ML-TL with the same line volume will usually have an f3 several Hz lower than an equivalent tapered TL, while the tapered TL will usually have a significantly lower air velocity in its terminus than that in the port of an ML-TL for the same SPL output.
Paul

[Jesse055]

I designed the ML-TL for the RS225 in the Finalist back in 2014. I'm attaching the cabinet drawing (for just the TL part) and the predicted anechoic system bass response (red line) from the TL modeling. An ML-TL with the same line volume will usually have an f3 several Hz lower than an equivalent tapered TL, while the tapered TL will usually have a significantly lower air velocity in its terminus than that in the port of an ML-TL for the same SPL output.
Paul

thanks Paul. I was leaning towards your design. My prototype(pictured above) does seem to have amazing bass that has texture and deep bass from that RS 225. Would you happen to know who designed the tapered TL on Curt's website? Just curious

[Jim Holtz]

thanks Paul. I was leaning towards your design. My prototype(pictured above) does seem to have amazing bass that has texture and deep bass from that RS 225. Would you happen to know who designed the tapered TL on Curt's website? Just curious

I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

Jim

[Jesse055]

I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

Jim

Hi Jim, thanks for all your contributions to DIY and your willingness to share your taste. I have built the Statement monitors and love them. My only regret with them was that I didn't make them a Tower by adding a concealed compartment below the woofer and so they sit on top of some Klipsch Quartets. Funny thing is I swapped in the NE 123 Mid and took out the Tang Mid before you announced the statement II. I didn't change the mid crossover, but since I noticed an improvement I just left the crossover alone. Think its worth the trouble to redo the Mid crossover?

Also, what is the best way to accurately cut those Mid Tunnels so they are near perfect?? How much difference are you hearing with cylinder PVC mid tunnels vs the Square MDF tunnels?

One day I may build those Bordeaux speakers. If I can scrap up the change for those accutons, lol.

[Jesse055]

I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

Jim

Forget to ask Jim, how much difference would it be between the RS28F and the Morel tweeter? I have 2 of the RS28's but just wondering the differences in your opinion?.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jim, thanks for all your contributions to DIY and your willingness to share your taste. I have built the Statement monitors and love them. My only regret with them was that I didn't make them a Tower by adding a concealed compartment below the woofer and so they sit on top of some Klipsch Quartets. Funny thing is I swapped in the NE 123 Mid and took out the Tang Mid before you announced the statement II. I didn't change the mid crossover, but since I noticed an improvement I just left the crossover alone. Think its worth the trouble to redo the Mid crossover?

Also, what is the best way to accurately cut those Mid Tunnels so they are near perfect?? How much difference are you hearing with cylinder PVC mid tunnels vs the Square MDF tunnels?

One day I may build those Bordeaux speakers. If I can scrap up the change for those accutons, lol.

Hi Jesse

Thank you for the kind words. The crossover with NE123's would be different. Curt is the wizard but I think I can say without hesitation the NE123 and W4 would be different enough its not a drop in. The only design we upgraded was the Statements II. I doubt Curt will ever touch a Statements Monitor again since we have so many other designs we've done since then that would be significant upgrades.... like the Finalists you're getting ready to build.

I don't understand your question regarding cutting the tunnels. The only reason I didn't use PVC in all the open back designs is because I couldn't source 5" ID PVC locally. I can get 6" which is too big for the 4" drivers, IMHO. BTW,zero difference in sound quality using the MDF tunnels or PVC.

If you have RS28F's I'd go with those. I really liked the sound of them. The Morels are very nice but cost more so stick with what you have, IMHO.

Jim

[Jesse055]

Hi Jesse

Thank you for the kind words. The crossover with NE123's would be different. Curt is the wizard but I think I can say without hesitation the NE123 and W4 would be different enough its not a drop in. The only design we upgraded was the Statements II. I doubt Curt will ever touch a Statements Monitor again since we have so many other designs we've done since then that would be significant upgrades.... like the Finalists you're getting ready to build.

I don't understand your question regarding cutting the tunnels. The only reason I didn't use PVC in all the open back designs is because I couldn't source 5" ID PVC locally. I can get 6" which is too big for the 4" drivers, IMHO. BTW,zero difference in sound quality using the MDF tunnels or PVC.

If you have RS28F's I'd go with those. I really liked the sound of them. The Morels are very nice but cost more so stick with what you have, IMHO.

Jim

Yes I know the NE 123 is different but even without the crossover change the NE 123 still works better to my ears. Of course I would like to make a change or two to the crossover but I don know how. As for the cut I have just never cut PVC before except with a hand saw and it wasn't perfect cut. Do most people use the table saw?

[Jim Holtz]

Yes I know the NE 123 is different but even without the crossover change the NE 123 still works better to my ears. Of course I would like to make a change or two to the crossover but I don know how. As for the cut I have just never cut PVC before except with a hand saw and it wasn't perfect cut. Do most people use the table saw?

Hi Jessie,

I use a tablesaw but a handsaw is also OK. The end just needs to be close and fit into the length. I use Titebond to seal the PVC in place at the the same time I'm gluing in the PVC support braces. It makes the cabinet very stiff.

Jim