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Finalist speakers, Tower version. Advice needed concerning TL vs Ported

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  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
    I designed the ML-TL for the RS225 in the Finalist back in 2014. I'm attaching the cabinet drawing (for just the TL part) and the predicted anechoic system bass response (red line) from the TL modeling. An ML-TL with the same line volume will usually have an f3 several Hz lower than an equivalent tapered TL, while the tapered TL will usually have a significantly lower air velocity in its terminus than that in the port of an ML-TL for the same SPL output.
    Paul
    Click image for larger version Name:	Finalists ML-TL Response.gif Views:	1 Size:	6.0 KB ID:	1401918
    Click image for larger version Name:	Finalists ML-TL Woofer Compartment.jpg Views:	1 Size:	297.9 KB ID:	1401919

    I would assume the the air velocity from your ML-TL wouldn’t be significant. Shouldn’t make a functional difference, correct? I’m leaning toward your design from what I’m understanding.

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  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post
    I have the drivers for about 18 months but have procrastinated the project(yes I even have the Dayton RS28F tweeters that have been discontinued). What I am debating is whether to go transmission line or ported. If the decision is to go TL then I noticed that I then have two choices for the TL. 1. The tapered TL on the Speakerdesignworks website, or 2. The non tapered ML-TL designed by Paul K.

    Anyone heard or have any experience on the TL's vs the regular ported Finalist? Anyone have opinions on the two different TL versions?

    Please help me decide and subjective opinions are welcome so don't hold back
    Build and try both using the same drivers and a separate external crossover. The listening comparison(s) will be a good learning experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Curt is waaaay behind on his website. There are several projects that he doesn't have posted. Life has gotten in the way so speaker projects are moving at a slower pace for him.

    Email me; jim (at) jholtz (dot) us and I'll send you everything. It is a large amount of pictures, drawings and a tip sheet.

    Jim
    Totally understood as I took about 18 months off with life, lol. I will email you soon, thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Once I get these Tower TL Finalist completed, those are high on the list for next project. I didn't find them on Curts website. Will hey be on his site? Where can I find the plans?
    Curt is waaaay behind on his website. There are several projects that he doesn't have posted. Life has gotten in the way so speaker projects are moving at a slower pace for him.

    Email me; jim (at) jholtz (dot) us and I'll send you everything. It is a large amount of pictures, drawings and a tip sheet.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Wonderful! I love them.

    Jim
    Once I get these Tower TL Finalist completed, those are high on the list for next project. I didn't find them on Curts website. Will hey be on his site? Where can I find the plans?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Ok I will, thanks. BTW how are the Bordeaux treating you?
    Wonderful! I love them.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post
    It's not hard with a table saw. lower the blade so its just through the 5/8" of PVC wall with a square edge against the guide and carefully twist the pvc until its cut all the way around. Pretty simple.

    Jim
    Ok I will, thanks. BTW how are the Bordeaux treating you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    It's not hard with a table saw. lower the blade so its just through the 5/8" of PVC wall with a square edge against the guide and carefully twist the pvc until its cut all the way around. Pretty simple.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Hi Jessie,

    I use a tablesaw but a handsaw is also OK. The end just needs to be close and fit into the length. I use Titebond to seal the PVC in place at the the same time I'm gluing in the PVC support braces. It makes the cabinet very stiff.

    Jim
    Sure I will try the table saw. May need another guide. Will play on youtube. If my cuts are bad I will just MDF tunnel it. Going to be a lot of work but I know it will be worth it. Thankful to you and Curt for the design.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Yes I know the NE 123 is different but even without the crossover change the NE 123 still works better to my ears. Of course I would like to make a change or two to the crossover but I don know how. As for the cut I have just never cut PVC before except with a hand saw and it wasn't perfect cut. Do most people use the table saw?
    Hi Jessie,

    I use a tablesaw but a handsaw is also OK. The end just needs to be close and fit into the length. I use Titebond to seal the PVC in place at the the same time I'm gluing in the PVC support braces. It makes the cabinet very stiff.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    Hi Jesse

    Thank you for the kind words. The crossover with NE123's would be different. Curt is the wizard but I think I can say without hesitation the NE123 and W4 would be different enough its not a drop in. The only design we upgraded was the Statements II. I doubt Curt will ever touch a Statements Monitor again since we have so many other designs we've done since then that would be significant upgrades.... like the Finalists you're getting ready to build.

    I don't understand your question regarding cutting the tunnels. The only reason I didn't use PVC in all the open back designs is because I couldn't source 5" ID PVC locally. I can get 6" which is too big for the 4" drivers, IMHO. BTW,zero difference in sound quality using the MDF tunnels or PVC.

    If you have RS28F's I'd go with those. I really liked the sound of them. The Morels are very nice but cost more so stick with what you have, IMHO.

    Jim
    Yes I know the NE 123 is different but even without the crossover change the NE 123 still works better to my ears. Of course I would like to make a change or two to the crossover but I don know how. As for the cut I have just never cut PVC before except with a hand saw and it wasn't perfect cut. Do most people use the table saw?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    Hi Jim, thanks for all your contributions to DIY and your willingness to share your taste. I have built the Statement monitors and love them. My only regret with them was that I didn't make them a Tower by adding a concealed compartment below the woofer and so they sit on top of some Klipsch Quartets. Funny thing is I swapped in the NE 123 Mid and took out the Tang Mid before you announced the statement II. I didn't change the mid crossover, but since I noticed an improvement I just left the crossover alone. Think its worth the trouble to redo the Mid crossover?

    Also, what is the best way to accurately cut those Mid Tunnels so they are near perfect?? How much difference are you hearing with cylinder PVC mid tunnels vs the Square MDF tunnels?

    One day I may build those Bordeaux speakers. If I can scrap up the change for those accutons, lol.
    Hi Jesse

    Thank you for the kind words. The crossover with NE123's would be different. Curt is the wizard but I think I can say without hesitation the NE123 and W4 would be different enough its not a drop in. The only design we upgraded was the Statements II. I doubt Curt will ever touch a Statements Monitor again since we have so many other designs we've done since then that would be significant upgrades.... like the Finalists you're getting ready to build.

    I don't understand your question regarding cutting the tunnels. The only reason I didn't use PVC in all the open back designs is because I couldn't source 5" ID PVC locally. I can get 6" which is too big for the 4" drivers, IMHO. BTW,zero difference in sound quality using the MDF tunnels or PVC.

    If you have RS28F's I'd go with those. I really liked the sound of them. The Morels are very nice but cost more so stick with what you have, IMHO.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

    Jim
    Forget to ask Jim, how much difference would it be between the RS28F and the Morel tweeter? I have 2 of the RS28's but just wondering the differences in your opinion?.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jesse055
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim Holtz View Post

    I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

    Jim
    Hi Jim, thanks for all your contributions to DIY and your willingness to share your taste. I have built the Statement monitors and love them. My only regret with them was that I didn't make them a Tower by adding a concealed compartment below the woofer and so they sit on top of some Klipsch Quartets. Funny thing is I swapped in the NE 123 Mid and took out the Tang Mid before you announced the statement II. I didn't change the mid crossover, but since I noticed an improvement I just left the crossover alone. Think its worth the trouble to redo the Mid crossover?

    Also, what is the best way to accurately cut those Mid Tunnels so they are near perfect?? How much difference are you hearing with cylinder PVC mid tunnels vs the Square MDF tunnels?

    One day I may build those Bordeaux speakers. If I can scrap up the change for those accutons, lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Holtz
    replied
    Originally posted by Jesse055 View Post

    thanks Paul. I was leaning towards your design. My prototype(pictured above) does seem to have amazing bass that has texture and deep bass from that RS 225. Would you happen to know who designed the tapered TL on Curt's website? Just curious
    I believe that was Curt. He also likes TL's.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:

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