Crossover component quality: How do they affect sound?

[scardeal]

My final question would be related to the capacitors and resistors (although I'd be happy to see where any discussion might lead):

Is there some comprehensive testing on whose resistors and capacitors consistently most closely match their stated specs?

[ugly woofer]

Where people cannot perceive a difference in sound quality, they tend to substitute price as the determining factor.

The opposite is also true, if I can't afford it, it can't possibly sound any better.

[scardeal]

The opposite is also true, if I can't afford it, it can't possibly sound any better.

Technically true, because you can't listen to it if you don't have it. And you can't have it if you can't afford it.

[Kornbread]

Starting to dwell in the Dunning-Kruger realm.

[Chris Roemer]

I've measured w/WT&DATS for a long, long time. As far as the parts PE sells, I've only seen SOME of their npe caps vary by more than 5%. The Dayton "5%" pp caps are nearly always 2% or better (making their "2%" offerings moot). The Dayton "Audio Grade" 10w resistors really don't have any lower inductance than the "cheap" (XICON?) ones - which are being phased out to NLA.

In short, (except for npe caps), if I'd never measured ANY (other) caps, coils, or resistors that I bought at PE, it would never have made any modelable (<-yeah, prob. not a real word) diff. in an XO sim.

[Kornbread]

Still on the subject of crossover quality: What is the consensus on mixing poly and npe? As an example, using a 20uf poly in conjunction with a 68uf npe yielding an 88uf cap vs using strictly poly to build the 88uf cap?

[mcargill]

If, as johnnyrichards says, red caps sound better, does it matter which kind of paint I use?

At CSS DIY held at Meniscus last September, they demonstrated two different crossovers they offer with one of their high-end two-way kits, using a good a/b switcher. The cost of the upgraded crossover was, if I remember correctly, $600 more (for a pair) than the kit with the basic crossover. I think about half of the people in the the room thought they might possibly have heard a difference between the two crossovers, but only a slight, subtle difference. I was among those who heard no difference at all.

--Meredith

[fpitas]

If, as johnnyrichards says, red caps sound better, does it matter which kind of paint I use?

At CSS DIY held at Meniscus last September, they demonstrated two different crossovers they offer with one of their high-end two-way kits, using a good a/b switcher. The cost of the upgraded crossover was, if I remember correctly, $600 more (for a pair) than the kit with the basic crossover. I think about half of the people in the the room thought they might possibly have heard a difference between the two crossovers, but only a slight, subtle difference. I was among those who heard no difference at all.

--Meredith

I think it's fair to say it can be a contentious subject. I chose to avoid it by going all active. Well, except the 10 ohm resistors in series with the horns. But those are Pixie Dust certified

[scardeal]

If, as johnnyrichards says, red caps sound better, does it matter which kind of paint I use?

At CSS DIY held at Meniscus last September, they demonstrated two different crossovers they offer with one of their high-end two-way kits, using a good a/b switcher. The cost of the upgraded crossover was, if I remember correctly, $600 more (for a pair) than the kit with the basic crossover. I think about half of the people in the the room thought they might possibly have heard a difference between the two crossovers, but only a slight, subtle difference. I was among those who heard no difference at all.

--Meredith

That's definitely interesting. Thanks for the observations.

[skatz]

If, as johnnyrichards says, red caps sound better, does it matter which kind of paint I use?

At CSS DIY held at Meniscus last September, they demonstrated two different crossovers they offer with one of their high-end two-way kits, using a good a/b switcher. The cost of the upgraded crossover was, if I remember correctly, $600 more (for a pair) than the kit with the basic crossover. I think about half of the people in the the room thought they might possibly have heard a difference between the two crossovers, but only a slight, subtle difference. I was among those who heard no difference at all.

--Meredith

I was there also and agree with Meredith, it was a minute difference. On one of the trials I heard no difference; another time, thought I might have detected a tiny difference, certainly one I would not have noticed if I wasn't trying to listen for it. Very top end of the spectrum if at all. It was one of those things you cannot be sure of.

[djg]

I was there also and agree with Meredith, it was a minute difference. On one of the trials I heard no difference; another time, thought I might have detected a tiny difference, certainly one I would not have noticed if I wasn't trying to listen for it. Very top end of the spectrum if at all. It was one of those things you cannot be sure of.

Not to pick on you, but which sounded better?
More accurate?
More euphonic?
Less euphonic?

[skatz]

It was so subtle that I cannot be sure, I wasn't even sure if I was hearing a difference. However, I think the high end XO had a tiny improvement on the hi end of things. It would not justify the price tag for me. I wasn't even sure it was real.

[skatz]

I should add, these were quite brief listening sessions. Maybe over a longer exposure it would be more clear.

[Geoff Millar]

Still on the subject of crossover quality: What is the consensus on mixing poly and npe? As an example, using a 20uf poly in conjunction with a 68uf npe yielding an 88uf cap vs using strictly poly to build the 88uf cap?

I think PE's Dayton BR-1 kit uses such a set up in its crossover: a small poly cap with a larger NPE cap, not just to provide the required value part, but also to do something related to "higher hystoresis" (?) to improve the sound. I haven't heard the kit so I have no idea whether that's true.

My local electronics supplier gave me some very high quality, small value (0.01 microfarad) poly caps last Christmas to use in parallel with larger value poly caps to improve the sound in the tweeter circuit. I'm using them with the first cap in a third order crossover. Unfortunately, with respect to this question I just wired both crossovers the same instead of doing an A/B comparison with and without the little cap. He knows his stuff so I was happy just to take his word for it that the sound would be improved.

Sorry I can't shed light on your question but I'll do an A/B for my next build - coming up shortly - and will post my impressions.

Geoff

[Dukk]

My local electronics supplier gave me some very high quality, small value (0.01 microfarad) poly caps last Christmas to use in parallel with larger value poly caps to improve the sound in the tweeter circuit. I'm using them with the first cap in a third order crossover. Unfortunately, with respect to this question I just wired both crossovers the same instead of doing an A/B comparison with and without the little cap. He knows his stuff so I was happy just to take his word for it that the sound would be improved.

Geoff

A couple of decades ago when we used to build more passive crossovers (mostly for car audio use) this was a big fad - running a tiny poly cap in parallel with basic NPE caps in an effort to get that 'poly smoothness' while keeping cost in check.

For my personal projects I always just went straight to Solen and I never tried an A/B comparison so cannot comment on how well this works. Hopefully someone has and can comment.