Crossover component quality: How do they affect sound?

[johnnyrichards]

Knowing full well that it is a scientific fact that red caps sound better, do you think the unmeasurable but absolutely true quality of red sounding better vis a vis capacitors migrates to coils? My ears, which are exempt from any and all testing because they are awesome, have determined red is better. Pretty hard to argue with that overwhelming conclusion.

[johnnyrichards]

Let's be real here, the majority of caps are poorer sounding to start with. There are a few good sounding, but not great. Red caps sound better, so it is written.

[johnnyrichards]

Just kidding, nobody here can identify capacitor brand while blind.

[johnnyrichards]

Or even capacitor type. Sorry to flame the sh!t show, but it's true. We need sight for our ears to hear.

[johnnyrichards]

Seriously though, spend some time value matching before you start rolling caps. Absent at least that, you are essentially possessed of barely anecdotal evidence - which is less evidence than their is for Bigfoot.

[TN Allen]

"We need sight for our ears to hear..."
"...less evidence than their is for Bigfoot."

I'd run faster, if I saw and heard Bigfoot, than if only hearing it, him or her.

[djg]

"Bigfoot" caught on tape (original Patterson footage) - YouTube

[Geoff Millar]

Sorry if this stirs the pot but thought it relevant to the discussion

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Thanks for that link, very interesting.

The article rates my most used brand of A$20 capacitor at 8, and a brand which sells here for $170, as 10. It says that the dearer one has a bit more clarity but at almost eight times the price?!

Geoff

[djg]

Tony Gee said it, I believe it, that settles it.

[Carbon13]

I found that link while researching solen caps for a vintage 3way recap. Thought it was kinda interesting but wanted to hear from the more knowledgeable group here.

[devnull]

If you haven't figured it out yet, music is subject. I can't think of a data set that I enjoy listening to. That is why every company that produces high end speakers voice them. If you use data only you will never design a great soundind speaker.

I never said only use data, obviously a speaker needs to voiced. There certainly is a place for more additional information to be used during the design phase. Do you build a half dozen cabinets guessing at volumes and port sizes? No, you use a program and input TS parameters into it as a starting point. Do you blindly guess at crossover component values? No. Do you design your crossovers using the speakers nominal impedance? No, at a minimum use the published impedance graphs, maybe even make your own measurements.

I'm just saying that more specific information up front during the design phase is a good thing. You can always choose to disregard it and not use it. It's certainly easier to design and voice a good sounding speaker starting with good valid information, data and measurements than it is to throw some drivers into a random cabinet and throw hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of crossover components at it until it sounds right.

[kevintomb]

I never said only use data, obviously a speaker needs to voiced. There certainly is a place for more additional information to be used during the design phase. Do you build a half dozen cabinets guessing at volumes and port sizes? No, you use a program and input TS parameters into it as a starting point. Do you blindly guess at crossover component values? No. Do you design your crossovers using the speakers nominal impedance? No, at a minimum use the published impedance graphs, maybe even make your own measurements.

I'm just saying that more specific information up front during the design phase is a good thing. You can always choose to disregard it and not use it. It's certainly easier to design and voice a good sounding speaker starting with good valid information, data and measurements than it is to throw some drivers into a random cabinet and throw hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of crossover components at it until it sounds right.

I built an entire garage just from Eye balling the lengths of wood, and never once used any measuring tools, straight edges or any measurements.

We all know our eyes are better at judging lengths of wood, than any tape measure!

(Sarcasm)

[kevintomb]

Sorry if this stirs the pot but thought it relevant to the discussion

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

OF course he is only able to rate caps, "Sighted", and knowing Price point.

With all his time spent comparing, why not do a blind test, and add a dose of validity to the "Comparison"?

[Wolf]

Because no one would believe him even if he did guess right whether guessed or known, as statistics rules out the possibility that one person can if many others cannot repeat the action. How do I know? I went through the process for a few groups back in 2010. There is always the matter of perspective and being different from person to person, but you cannot account for that in these kinds of tests.

I waited to weigh in on this matter as many of these threads come up. JR also had a very concise response. I'm also one of the people that believe they can make a difference, whether or not they always will or do depends on a lot of criteria. Notice I said make a 'difference', not necessarily that it will be 'better' or 'worse'. I've had some worse results by my opinion, as well as better, and yet some where nothing changed for my observations.

The most ear-opening test I've done on caps was the 2 cap test I switched in the Nephila project on the AMT. I had a plain-jane MKP industrial style cap, and a ZEN-cap from NorthCreek. Not one person that heard this comparison doubted there was a difference between the components. Some preferred the focus of the MKP, and others the expansive soundstage of the ZEN. Neither was 'better', but only 'different' for listeners, and better was a matter of opinion for other reasons that resulted.

Later,
Wolf

[Navy Guy]

You say that you liked the sound better. What you did not say is,,,,, would you pony up the cash.

So, would ya?

Have Fun! Mark.

I did for my Juggernauts. Since I like building speakers, most of the time I'd put the money toward more speakers. You can build a lot more with the money you save from the more expensive parts. The complexity of the crossover and part values play a big role in the cost too. There are also cheaper options over the Jantzen and Mundorf caps that sound very good (Clarity CSA and Audyn Plus Cap). But if I were a regular person who just wanted the best you could get, I would opt for the upgrade. It really will come down to how the individual weighs the value. We tell our customers basically this same thing and we end up selling about 1/3 of our kits with the upgrade.