Crossover component quality: How do they affect sound?

[fpitas]

I'm not being cynical here, but if you think the upgrade parts make it sound better, even if no one else can hear it, they may be worth the extra money to you.

[Kornbread]

Now that we have deduced that red caps are better, what about inductors? Iron core, powder core, air core, copper foil, ...

[PWR RYD]

Capacitors take a long time to break in. The more they cost the longer they take to break in. It's scientifically directly proportional. Exactly like fullrange driver manufacturers suggest.

Red caps definitely sound way better than all others but you must thermal cycle them at least two dozen times using your wife's oven and her fridge. Then use a variac to slowly increase the break in voltage exactly one volt rms per minute until you can hear them complete their self healing process (ie when the sizzle /snap sounds stop).

It's really quite simple.

[Wolf]

I did throw some caps in the freezer for the heck of it once. Joel told me the Attitudes sounded better than before at one point and I hadn't changed anything except having the xovers in the frozen temps in my car for a couple days. Who knows?

Later,
Wolf

[djg]

You may be on to something. BTW, I successfully resisted the urge to post a picture of a MAGA hat. You know, "red cap".

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[skatz]

One problem with that test cited is that there are many uncontrolled variables that might account for the results. At least in what I read, he compares caps based on their nominal ratings, but the exact value of capacitance and ESR and whatever else affects the outcome is not controlled for. Until they are truly matched (which may not be possible), you cannot be sure what accounts for any differences.

[fpitas]

One problem with that test cited is that there are many uncontrolled variables that might account for the results. At least in what I read, he compares caps based on their nominal ratings, but the exact value of capacitance and ESR and whatever else affects the outcome is not controlled for. Until they are truly matched (which may not be possible), you cannot be sure what accounts for any differences.

True enough, but he only had a few red capacitors. No need to test the others, really.

[craigk]

One problem with that test cited is that there are many uncontrolled variables that might account for the results. At least in what I read, he compares caps based on their nominal ratings, but the exact value of capacitance and ESR and whatever else affects the outcome is not controlled for. Until they are truly matched (which may not be possible), you cannot be sure what accounts for any differences.

Since the manufacturing companies can't exactly control the items you are talking about, how is the person conducting the test going to. Your making a nonsensical argument. There is no comparison of anything manufactured that is exactly matched. Humans don't have the ability to make exact anything.

[Dukk]

Not to speak for skatz but what I took from his statement is: if one is going to compare two items, they should at least be tested that they both measure as closely as possible. With 5% tolerance, one 100uf cap could be 95uF and the other 105uf. There is every chance that this difference in capacitance would be more audible than the actual brand of capacitor.

I personally do not usually have buckets of components lying about to try to field match so I just run with the items I bought for that project and hope that buying decent quality product will result in decent sound. That is probably the 'last 5%' that people search for but with what I listen to, it probably wouldn't matter

[skatz]

Since the manufacturing companies can't exactly control the items you are talking about, how is the person conducting the test going to. Your making a nonsensical argument. There is no comparison of anything manufactured that is exactly matched. Humans don't have the ability to make exact anything.

My point, as Dukk understood, was that it should be apples to apples, and those basic parameters of the devices under test were not controlled for. Therefore you cannot conclude that one is better than another, because the difference in outcome may be accounted for by the difference in values. I don't see anything nonsensical in that. Its nonsensical to ignore it.

[craigk]

My point, as Dukk understood, was that it should be apples to apples, and those basic parameters of the devices under test were not controlled for. Therefore you cannot conclude that one is better than another, because the difference in outcome may be accounted for by the difference in values. I don't see anything nonsensical in that. Its nonsensical to ignore it.

I measure all components in an xover. Even cheap parts are usually with in 5 %. Many places will match parts for you for a $ 1.00 fee. It is important for things to be on a level playing field, but that being said, are you speaker cables matched, amo channels, output from you source, drivers in your speakers ? This is a very deep rabbit hole to go down.

[skatz]

Craig, I agree, but I didn't publish a comparison article on different capacitors. Even you agree that there are value differences between different parts nominally rated the same, and one should expect that those differences will make a difference in the outcome that could make one brand seem more or less desirable than another. I'm just saying that those differences were not controlled for in the article, so the results may not be valid.

[craigk]

Craig, I agree, but I didn't publish a comparison article on different capacitors. Even you agree that there are value differences between different parts nominally rated the same, and one should expect that those differences will make a difference in the outcome that could make one brand seem more or less desirable than another. I'm just saying that those differences were not controlled for in the article, so the results may not be valid.

I understand what your point is. My point is regardless why they sound better, if they sound better to you , they are better and that is all that matters in the end.

[skatz]

We can agree on that. If you made that point previously in this thread, I missed it.

[johnnyrichards]

Red is better.