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Desperately seeking the right speakers for DIY bluetooth speaker

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
    Could you give me a few examples ? Like i said dayton 115 is perfect as far as bass goes. The problem is that i am dealing with low wattage amps to save battery power and its sensitivity is just to low :/
    How do you know what sensitivity is necessary? It's difficult (read: impossible) to know what we're comparing to, without knowing what your existing driver does.
    Francis

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    • #17
      That 4" woofer is playing next to visaton with 89dB sensitivity at 8 ohms and they seem to be of similar loudness. So i am guessing anything around 86dB at 8 ohms or 89dB at 4 ohms will be appropriate

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      • #18
        If I were you, i'd make something like this. Atleast its proven and known to be goood!

        https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/sprite

        Total cost should be around 40 dollars for drivers/crossover parts I am guessing, maybe 50.


        And this is a step up, higher budget! Around 100-120 I believe, but probably does great justice too!

        https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/isetta

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
          That 4" woofer is playing next to visaton with 89dB sensitivity at 8 ohms and they seem to be of similar loudness. So i am guessing anything around 86dB at 8 ohms or 89dB at 4 ohms will be appropriate
          so you want 89db @ 2.83v minimum with a fs of 70 hz. that's a good start. now you can model some 4 inch drivers and this will let you know how big of a box they need.

          86 db at 2.0v is the same as 89 db at 2.83v

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          • #20
            I am guessing this speakers do not come cheap ? Can you give me an example of such speakers ?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
              I already bought TCP115-4 and compared it with the 4" speaker i got from woofer. The difference in loudnes is very very big. You can barely hear the TCP115-4 on my 2x25W amp, while u can hear the 4" from 2.1 system very loud. I didnt compare bass between them because the logitech is already in an enclosure and i cannot take it out.
              Maybe a dumb question, but were you comparing these with the TCP115 not attached in a box (maybe because you didn't have an extra one available at the time)?
              If so, keep in mind that most/any speaker will usually sound very weak and quiet in the lows and mids when played without mounting in a box. Sometimes breaking a speaker in for a while will also help its bass as well though a properly tuned box should make a much bigger difference right away.



              They have higher fs of around 80-85hz, but the rs100-4 and rs100p-4 may work in as little as 3litres of space while reaching 60-65hz F3, or 4litres to reach down to 50-55hz. These speakers are more expensive than the Dayton DA, DS, DSA models I mentioned earlier, but they're a little more efficient and available as 4ohm models which often gives the amp a ~3db boost. These are around 89db at 2.83v.

              With some solid options in the $15-$20 range, does something closer to $30+ still sound okay to you for the extra volume or is that getting a little too expensive?
              My first 2way build

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              • #22
                Thank you for your reply, the speakers you linked indeed look great. They are a bit costy so i will have to think it all money wise. I am working with pvc square pipes. So i am looking at either using 1 pipe or 2 pipes. If i use 1 pipe, my perfect volume would be about 0.1 ft^3, if i use 2, it will be 0.2 ft^3. I found 2 other cheap speakers and would like u to comment:


                https://www.soundimports.eu/en/pc83-8.html
                https://www.soundimports.eu/en/dsa115-8.html


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                • #23
                  A Dayton ND90-8 (or comparable AURA NS3-183?) will go 50 in about 0.15 ported cu.ft. They CAN run w/out any filters - the top end isn't bad, just more directional (as any FR driver (w/out a true tweeter) will be).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
                    Thank you for your reply, the speakers you linked indeed look great. They are a bit costy so i will have to think it all money wise. I am working with pvc square pipes. So i am looking at either using 1 pipe or 2 pipes. If i use 1 pipe, my perfect volume would be about 0.1 ft^3, if i use 2, it will be 0.2 ft^3. I found 2 other cheap speakers and would like u to comment:

                    https://www.soundimports.eu/en/pc83-8.html
                    https://www.soundimports.eu/en/dsa115-8.html
                    The PC83-4 sounds a little harsh in the high-end and can run into easily noticeable distortion up there when used fullrange without any filtering, but that doesn't matter if you're just using it as a tiny subwoofer. It has similar efficiency compared to the DSA115-8, DA115-8, DS115-8, ND90-4 and your TCP115-4.....all of these are around [email protected] (within about 0.5-1.0db...a mostly invisible difference). The PC83-4 is a smaller speaker which will hit a wall a little faster than the larger speakers here (everything else) when asked to play deep bass loudly...but I don't think it'll be a problem unless you're cranking them with certain songs, and it's not the kind of thing that'll break the speaker..just sounds flubby.
                    The important bad-news part is that almost all of these speakers (either because of their higher 8ohm impedance or their naturally lower sensitivity) should have roughly similar output volume compared to that TCP115-4 you already tried and disliked. Unless something was holding that TCP back; like not using it inside a properly ported box, or maybe you have the TCP115-8 instead of the TCP115-4.

                    The RS100-4 and RS100p-4 are the only Dayton Audio speakers I'm seeing that are a decent bit more efficient while still being pretty suitable for an 0.2ft^3 container.

                    The PC83-4, DS115-8 and RS100-4 are a little better at reaching slightly deeper bass in a 0.2ft^3 ported enclosure compared to the DA115-8 and DSA115-8, while the ND90-4 and TCP115-4 are noticeably better at reaching deep bass inside a small, ported enclosure...so the ND90-4 and TCP115-4 are the much better options for a tiny 0.1ft tube (about 2L-2.5L). Between those two the ND90-4 can work fullrange while the TCP115-4 cannot, but the TCP115-4 is more affordable and seems like a nearly equally capable option if you just need it to be a little subwoofer instead of a fullrange driver.


                    Sorry to repeat myself but when you tested the TCP115-4 you did it inside a ported 0.1-0.2ft^3 box (or pipe), right?
                    In a box/tube with a less-ideal port or PassiveRadiator the speaker's bass will usually sound weak and thin. Without any box/tube its bass will be too quiet to hear. IF you already tried the TCP115-4 inside a box with a halfway decently tuned port and found it way too quiet, then you'll almost surely have the same problem with the DS, DSA, DA, ND and PC Daytons. Even the RS100-4 and RS100p-4 at 3-4db louder will be more what I'd call an obviously noticeable difference but not nightVSday huge.
                    I'm really hoping to hear back that you tried your TCP sitting out in the open air or maybe in a sealed cardboard box or something similar that can make it sound quieter.

                    Also just to make sure, these are specifically being used as little subwoofers and not full-range, right?
                    Only a couple of these are suitable as full-range.
                    My first 2way build

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                    • #25
                      The only louder Dayton speaker I could find that can still juuust squeak by in an 0.2ft^3 enclosure is the DMA90-4 which claims to hit almost [email protected] This does come at the cost of it not reaching as low as any of the others listed so far (only around 60-65hz in an 0.2ft box and not suitable in your smaller 0.1ft box for lower than 80hz), but it might be a hair louder than even the RS100p-4 while costing a decent bit less money.
                      PartExpress currently has the DMA90-4 on sale as well which makes it one of the cheapest options if you wanted to try one for this project or anything else.

                      This smaller DMA90-4 should also hit a wall earlier than most of these (similar to the PC83-4) because of its smaller size which will limit the maximum volume you can reach with well-fed, larger amps. However, with battery-powered amps I'd expect the batterypack/powersupply to reach its limit (around 10watts X2) before the actual amp or speakers do.
                      My first 2way build

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                      • #26
                        First of all, i would like to thank you for actualy helping me instead of insulting me, i asked the same question on some other local forum and i mostly got insults, like i am not even allowed to do what i do, learn as i go, etc. Nobody was born with that knowledge and i learned a lot already but still know very little. So thank you for helping me to learn.

                        I tested TCP115-4 in a cardboard box that it came with, it fits nice inside. I didnt put them into a proper enclosure because i dont have one yet. I will test it as soon as possible in a pvc square pipe and let you know if it makes a difference. TCP115-4 goes quite high though, and even those highs are very quiet. But i will test it in a proper box anyway.

                        As far as speakers in general, i plan to use 1 speaker for lows and 1 high sensitivity full range speaker for everything else (like visaton FRS8). So if this woofer speaker only goes as high as 500Hz, i am fine with that, i dont need it to go to 5.000Hz. The second thing, i dont need to go very low. I will need to do some testing but maybe even 80Hz might be enough for me ? I dont know. The speaker i already made (and posted the video) plays fine for me, sadly i cant test how low it goes because i dont have proper mic that would pick up the bass well. Maybe i could just test frequencies and try to hear by ear when it drops very much ?

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                        • #27
                          I did a simple test of the frequencies and i can confirm that it goes to about 70 or 80Hz and then really drops fast. So maybe now it will be easier to find a speaker that can perform as good as this one, now that we know that it doesn't go very low but still sounds great to me and my friend. Here is the video:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2ItvNXMy7k

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                          • #28
                            You ARE modeling all these drivers w/a box modeling program ( like WinISD @ liinearteam.org - sc ), aren't you?
                            Too bad you can't get T/S parms for your orig. woofers.

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                            • #29
                              You are right, so far i am doing it without any calculations. First, because i have many speakers with no data and i want to use them somehow and second, all calculation programs will give me a much bigger enclosure than i can do. Those speakers need to be ultra portable, to fit into a small backpack, sometimes even into a pocket. So its a try and go. I do plan to learn about specs someday though if i ever decide to make a bigger speaker to have at home. As soon as i go into calculations everything becomes very complicated though.

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                              • #30
                                When I was quickly testing speakers to make sure nothing was DeadOnArrival I originally tried some different cardboard box tests (some even including cardboard tube ports, lol) but I think all of them had me feeling pretty disappointed in the speaker's performance (especially their lack of bass), but they've all sounded a good amount better after putting them in some boxes (wood boxes with ports in my situation) and I feel like the larger woofers also benefited more noticeably from some break-in time.

                                I've also read a few complaints about the TCP115's being inefficient and too quiet, so you're not alone there. Hopefully it turns out they aren't as bad as you originally thought once they're in some homemade boxes/PVC and then any of the more efficient speakers will be even better. Finding a small speaker that works in 0.2ft^3 or less that puts out significantly more than [email protected] in the bass frequencies is difficult (pretty much impossible for me it seems), so finding out the TCP isn't far off and then knowing there are some decently louder options will be good news.
                                I think a quick listening test like you did for the bass was a good plan to get a rough idea where your current woofer's bass falls off. Only needing to play down to 70-80hz will also be an easier target for the more efficient speakers.

                                Glad to hear you're getting a little better treatment here than you were on the local forums (though that still kinda sucks to hear the local ones aren't being as nice).

                                You might be able to make some kind of "test box/tube" with a changeable front for trying your different mystery speakers in (maybe also with a partly external port so you can test different port lengths).
                                My first 2way build

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