What Speakers for $1,000 Pair

[AudioSQ]

The budget is $500 a speaker and I want a design that has a center option as well, so about $1,500 total not including wood, but I certainly won't be mad with less. I currently have Fusion 8s which I've been rather pleased with, especially for movies, but they do leave me wanting more for music. They are also really ugly. I do enjoy their efficiency and vocal clarity and that will be important to maintain to some degree in the next set. They will mostly be used for movies/TV, but that doesn't mean music isn't important.

The room is about 15'x15' and is only treated on the back wall. Without going into to much detail that's really the only place I can have treatments so I won't be adding more. The low end is already taken care of with multiple subs. They will be powered by a Denon receiver, which I think is only 80 watts into 8 ohms. The source will be Spotify.. obviously CDs sound better, but I don't think I've even bought one in over a decade.

I initially thought Anthologies, but I'm hesitant on how well they would do off just an AVR and getting them the proper distance from walls could be tricky. I've also been looking at the Aldelphos MTM, but can't find much on them, ER18 MTM, 1099s (if ever in stock) would be super efficient.. really I've considered a lot of designs.. I guess my main concerns are finding something that runs well off an AVR and will still sound good with Spotify as the source. All suggestions and input are appreciated.

[tvrgeek]

Every link to Fusion 8 seams to be dead, so hard to see what you have. I gather it is an 8 inch woofer. Does it have a mid-range? An 8 is really hard to meet up with a 1 inch tweeter. What do you mean by "wanting more" ? If a DVD sounds great but your streaming does not, maybe it is the source not the speaker. The speaker can only reproduce what it is given. Are you running their enhanced bandwidth? .

With an AVR, be sure you do an 8 Ohm design. AVRs, even high end ones, are not designed for low impedance loads.

Bummer you can't do any work up around the speakers, Imaging is a matter of close boundary reflections. A few pieces of OC 705 does wonders.

I still buy CD's, but they all feed off my Windows media server, external DAC. I pipe Spectrum MC to my living room for background. I don't subscribe to any streaming service as the have too limited selections very little folk and no filk.

If I was starting over, I might try the new SB ceramic woofers and ceramic tweeter. I think a couple of designs are out already with them. Serious high end drivers.

FWIW, I have always been a fan of Denon as value and not anything wrong equipment, but when I stepped up to a Rotel AVR and then Anthem, the amps sections are better. Now, I will exclaim, if you have $10,000 speakers and a cheap receiver, the next best dollar spent may still be for speakers, but moving from mid-fi to entry hi-fi does make a difference. You may consider a good 3 channel amp.

[fpitas]

The Fusion 8 was, as I recall, a Jeff Bagby creation. It had a waveguide and an 8" woofer. More info would be good. But the question: What do you think is wrong with the Fusion 8 for music? is a good one. You must have some particular objection, and it would be good to avoid in future.

[rpb]

The budget is $500 a speaker and I want a design that has a center option as well, so about $1,500 total not including wood, but I certainlyIcertainly either be mad with less. I currently have Fusion 8s which I've been rather pleased with, especially for movies, but they do leave me wanting more for music. They are also really ugly. I do enjoy their efficiency and vocal clarity and that will be important to maintain to some degree in the next set. They will mostly be used for movies/TV, but that doesn't mean music isn't important.

The room is about 15'x15' and is only treated on the back wall. Without going into to much detail that's really the only place I can have treatments so I won't be adding more. The low end is already taken care of with multiple subs. They will be powered by a Denon receiver, which I think is only 80 watts into 8 ohms. The source will be Spotify.. obviously CDs sound better, but I don't think I've even bought one in over a decade.

I initially thought Anthologies, but I'm hesitant on how well they would do off just an AVR and getting them the proper distance from walls could be tricky. I've also been looking at the Aldelphos MTM, but can't find much on them, ER18 MTM, 1099s (if ever in stock) would be super efficient.. really I've considered a lot of designs.. I guess my main concerns are finding something that runs well off an AVR and will still sound good with Spotify as the source. All suggestions and input are appreciated.

I consider the room, and speaker location to be over half responsible for good, or not so good sound. If I put a speaker close to the wall, I'm not going to think much of it for music. In that situation, I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty early.

[tvrgeek]

The great equalizer: Owens Corning 705, 706 etc
But yes, I think a budget should be split equally three ways. Speakers, electronics and room management.

I also believe that a AV system, or even just an audio system should not be the dominant aesthetic in a room. If that is what you want, OK, to each it's own, but I try to make my living room look like a living room.

[AudioSQ]

Yes, the Fusion 8 is a Jeff Bagby design using an 8" PA woofer and an 8" horn. It's sensitivity is 93db. It's a great speaker for about $200 a pop. I wouldn't say I have a golden ear and hopefully I'm using these adjectives right.. I think the soundstage is too narrow, and the speakers are too laid back. I want something a little more forward.. I guess I want feel more engulfed by the music when listening but I don't want them to be fatiguing.

I may update to better amps someday, but yes if spending $1,500 is a complete waste for the source material I'm using then I won't waste the money. I used to have all my my CDs on a server as FLAC files, but the ease and variety of Spotify is just worth more to me.

[AudioSQ]

I've done what I can for the room. It has carpet, thick curtains, a book shelf, a couple bass traps and a few acoustic panels. The left speaker is about a foot from the side wall, and they're about a foot from the back wall. I can swap the left with the sub to get it further from the wall but was trying to avoid shoving the sub in a corner, but I can try to see how it sounds and measure it.

[tvrgeek]

OK, that description helps a lot. Sounds like a efficient mini-PA speaker. Jeff knows what he is doing, but it could be his goals for that speaker was not your goal. Horns are very very hard to do well and need to be very big. They are invaluable where efficiency is the top priority ( PA). Not best for music.

Take a look at the Adelphos kit, Meniscus Audio. Also by Jeff. The SB drivers that are very nice. I played with the tweeter and was impressed. There is a matching center. The Zaph SR-71 can be tweaked ( a bot too bright and I prefer the Al/Mg tweeter over the soft version) SB Revolution might be worth a look. Look at some of the SEAS published designs. Froy is highly respected.

[rpb]

I've done what I can for the room. It has carpet, thick curtains, a book shelf, a couple bass traps and a few acoustic panels. The left speaker is about a foot from the side wall, and they're about a foot from the back wall. I can swap the left with the sub to get it further from the wall but was trying to avoid shoving the sub in a corner, but I can try to see how it sounds and measure it.

Location is everything. The nearby walls will boost the lower frequencies, and the mid-range. I couldn't expect my best efforts to sound good if the speakers are in the corner. They might be "OK" for background music, but not for much more than that.

Try this temporarily, if you can. Move the speakers at least 4' from the side walls, and maybe 2' from the wall behind them, and see what changes you hear. If that works, try 3' then 6' from the back wall. (Avoid equal distances like 4' and 4'.) Adjust your seating position as well.

An option that might work, if relocating speakers isn't an option would be to use mostly the center for music, and let the L&R add spaciousness.

[a4eaudio]

I would also suggest the Statement IIs but they would need to be away from the walls just like the Anthologies.

Rpb's suggestion is good, if you move your current speakers out and it makes a significant improvement then you may be more willing to do that with future speakers than your current plan. I know I used to have my speakers close to the wall until reading this forum and learning a lot more. Now my speakers are out from the wall more than is really convenient but I like music more than convenience and luckily my wife is okay with that.

[rpb]

I've done what I can for the room. It has carpet, thick curtains, a book shelf, a couple bass traps and a few acoustic panels. The left speaker is about a foot from the side wall, and they're about a foot from the back wall. I can swap the left with the sub to get it further from the wall but was trying to avoid shoving the sub in a corner, but I can try to see how it sounds and measure it.

When I said the room is important, I didn't mean that treating it was the thing to do. If you want to, that's great, but just realize that like speaker building, there's an art to it. If the room needs to keep a certain look, it gets harder to treat it, and have it look good. My rooms are very plain, and on the lively side acoustically. Any big room in my house sometimes gets used for a HT setup with a projector. Very basic, low dollar, but I like it a lot! A video like this one on you-tube by Chris Issac sounds very good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOjTweUPt3Q

I also like Music from Daryl's house a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6GrnhUzzw

Frampton's Detroit concert is very good as well. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

I rarely just sit in the sweet spot, and listen to music, unless I'm voicing a speaker. The real test is how much I enjoy the above shows, and others like them.
This one gets cranked frequently. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D&&FORM=VDRVRV

[tvrgeek]

One more thing to add. When you walk into a room, your brain makes an imprint and it expects sound based on how you hear the ambient. It is a part of psycho-acoustics I do not see addressed much. Our brain can fix a lot our electronics can't.

I still suggest spending money on managing the sound. Not just absorption, but maybe selection of the curtains, where one puts bookshelves, displays, furniture , throw rugs, and everything else that goes into a room one uses as a room. Big ugly traps, funny foam wedges etc are not what I was thinking. With our dogs, we have hardwood floors so our rooms are a bit bright. Creativity is where it is at. Go after the short reflections, anything within about two feet of your speakers is that is where the imaging magic comes from. Of course, DIY makes it a lot cheaper. My thirds was more for retail prices.

Spend some time with a tone generator and track done any spurious resonances. I had an funny "edge" I finally tracked down the back panel of a china cabinet. Offset by a fire place can be a resonance trap. I had a cheap replacement window resonate terribly. Put in a better window. Surprising how much noise a nick-knack can make sitting on a shelf.

[tvrgeek]

I would also suggest the Statement IIs but they would need to be away from the walls just like the Anthologies.

Rpb's suggestion is good, if you move your current speakers out and it makes a significant improvement then you may be more willing to do that with future speakers than your current plan. I know I used to have my speakers close to the wall until reading this forum and learning a lot more. Now my speakers are out from the wall more than is really convenient but I like music more than convenience and luckily my wife is okay with that.

WAF sure is important, but I too am lucky she cares for music as much as I do. Line was drawn as 2Ces were too ugly and those "doors" were not allowed. ( Martin Logans)

[Kustomize]

http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

Has a center channel option at the bottom too!

Mandolin 2 MTM could be a nice Front LCR.
Mandolin TM for surrounds or the Soprano TM for surrounds, all by Jeff Bagby (RIP)

GR Research X-Statik MTM for Front Left and RIght, and it has a matching Center X-Voce.

But I JUST saw they increased the prices to 600+ from like 350 a pair I think!

[AudioSQ]

I haven't been to Zaph's site in almost a decade.. glad to see he's still rocking that 90s web design look. I'll add that one to the list to read up on.

Almost doubling the price on the GR, that's rough.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.