Using VituixCAD

[GaryRoach]

Windows 7, VituixCAD version 2.053.3

I just started using VituixCAD. It seems to be the Swiss Army Knife of the audio world. It also has a god awful learning curve. It seems that one has to design the speaker enclosure first. Am I correct? My first problem is with the driver filter mechanism. I can't seem to get the filter drop down menu to work. I put in 5" to 8" speaker diameter, fc < 35 Hz and Qts <0.35. All I got was a blank listing ( 0/1659). I finally had to go through by hand and check the Sel buttons. A very laborious task. What am I possibly doing wrong?

I am also having trouble setting the drivers in the crossover window. I hit the Frequency Response tab and it goes to /User/gary/MyDocuments/VituixCAD/Projects/VituixCAD_AxialFR file and nothing else. The Impedance response tab does the same thing.

How do I apply full power to the completed enclosure to test for vent velocity and excursion limits.

Any help would be sincerely appreciated.

GaryR

[tvrgeek]

More effort than some others, but trivial compared to Sound Easy. There was a trick to getting the files. I think you have to tell it to look for the standard extensions. I'll have to check. Raining, so maybe I'll play with it some after a snack. I want to compare it to my model from PSD-Lite. It suggests the design better than some. I do my box design in Win Isd and Edge. Have not compared it to Vituix.

[trevordj]

Windows 7, VituixCAD version 2.053.3 I just started using VituixCAD. It seems to be the Swiss Army Knife of the audio world. It also has a god awful learning curve. It seems that one has to design the speaker enclosure first. Am I correct? My first problem is with the driver filter mechanism. I can't seem to get the filter drop down menu to work. I put in 5" to 8" speaker diameter, fc

I am right there with you, I am currently designing my first passive crossover in Vituixcad. I have received some tremendous assistance here. Faced with some of the limitations of the program, I use a combination of Vituixcad and the Late Jeff Bagby’s excel spreadsheets. In particular his box modeling program and response blender are excellent. You can simulate your box there, combine it with free air measurements, and then export your frd and zma files for use in Vituixcad. Of course, after your initial tinkering with theoretical numbers derived from models you will eventually purchase your drivers and model them in box.

Can you post some screenshots of the areas you are struggling? I’m having a hard time visualizing but I may be able to help since I am mostly on the other side of being comfortable with the program.

-Trevor

[LOUT]

Windows 7, VituixCAD version 2.053.3
I just started using VituixCAD. It seems to be the Swiss Army Knife of the audio world. It also has a god awful learning curve. It seems that one has to design the speaker enclosure first. Am I correct? My first problem is with the driver filter mechanism. I can't seem to get the filter drop down menu to work. I put in 5" to 8" speaker diameter, fc < 35 Hz and Qts <0.35. All I got was a blank listing ( 0/1659). I finally had to go through by hand and check the Sel buttons. A very laborious task. What am I possibly doing wrong?

Near the top/middle or top/left do you see a checkbox labeled "Enable Filtering"? I think that needs to be checked in order for your filter options to work (like the "show only 5" to 8" speakers filter).
You'll also need the "sel" (select) box unchecked in the filter options screen/window unless you only want the manually checked/selected speakers to show.

This is something that used to all be done in the main window in old Vituix which I feel was a little more intuitive than the newer multi-window view.

Windows 7, VituixCAD version 2.053.3
I am also having trouble setting the drivers in the crossover window. I hit the Frequency Response tab and it goes to /User/gary/MyDocuments/VituixCAD/Projects/VituixCAD_AxialFR file and nothing else. The Impedance response tab does the same thing.

I think you'll need to manually select the file where you've downloaded/saved the speaker FRD and IMP files for the drivers you're using....unless that VituixCAD_AxialFR file is where you've chosen to put the files and they aren't showing.

IF you know the files should be in that folder but they aren't showing properly, look at the bottom/right of the file's window (next to the "FileName" input bar) where you can see another drop-down menu that might by default say "TextFiles"....click that and it should give a couple more options like "FRD files" or "ImpedanceResponseData". Select the one that corresponds with the filetype you're aiming for and then it should show up.
Sadly, while it'll usually remember your choices for the rest of the time you're messing with SIMs right now, later when you close and re-open Vituix it'll probably default back to "TextFiles" and need to be set for FRD and Impedance when you're using it again. I don't know how to make it remember these choices between restarts.

Windows 7, VituixCAD version 2.053.3
How do I apply full power to the completed enclosure to test for vent velocity and excursion limits.

In the Enclosure tool, you should have a voltage option near the middle/left called "Source" which will default at 2.83v (about 1watt into 8ohm or 2watts at 4ohms)...you can mouse-wheel up/down or type different numbers to increase or decrease the voltage here....the wattage should show in the graph labelled "Power" while the Vent velocity should show in the graph labelled "Velocity".
It'll also show the Peak Velocity when you click the "Info" tab next to the "Enclosure" tab....it'll be labelled "VmaxR m/s"....this is super handy since the graph seems to only go to 20m/s by default while I've heard a more realistic PeakVelocity to aim for is around 55m/s (though I could be wrong there).

I have an older and newer version right now, but not the most recent one...so some of these might still be a little different for yours.


Loosely related, I wish the newer versions still allowed the old-version crossover building option which was less pick-and-place and more pre-arranged circuits that you chose from a menu. The pick-and-place is more flexible so I don't want it gone, I just wish the other was still an option because I feel like it was easier to learn on when I was just starting.

[tvrgeek]

Just tried to copy my last project, a center channel into it. It is no where near either reality or my PSD-Lite sim. Might just stick with my old tools as I know them.

[LOUT]

Just tried to copy my last project, a center channel into it. It is no where near either reality or my PSD-Lite sim. Might just stick with my old tools as I know them.

I might be missunderstanding, but do you mean between two different sim programs, inputting all the same information into both gives two very different results?
If so, might it be because one of them is missing something that the other accepts, or maybe some variable was forgotten in one but not the other (or a decimal point or imperial VS metric) or one defaults to a different preset for some things?

It's just weird to hear of sims getting things different from each other (if I'm not missunderstanding in the first place)...different from real-world because of unknown or missed variables, sure...but not different from eachother when given the same info and left with the same gaps/defaults.

[hongrn]

One of the easiest tools for crossover design has got to be WinPCD, by David Ralph (dlr on TT here). If you like Jeff Bagby's PCD, you'll feel right at home with WinPCD. It does the job admirably, has a simple interface, and an easy learning curve. Why mess with anything complicated?

https://www.speakerdesign.net/

[tvrgeek]

I might be missunderstanding, but do you mean between two different sim programs, inputting all the same information into both gives two very different results?
If so, might it be because one of them is missing something that the other accepts, or maybe some variable was forgotten in one but not the other (or a decimal point or imperial VS metric) or one defaults to a different preset for some things?

It's just weird to hear of sims getting things different from each other (if I'm not missunderstanding in the first place)...different from real-world because of unknown or missed variables, sure...but not different from eachother when given the same info and left with the same gaps/defaults.

Correct. I am sure it is due to the learning curve. My old tools are quite intuitive. The more complex are not. I am not even sure of it is actually using the baffle step data that did look good.

[tvrgeek]

One of the easiest tools for crossover design has got to be WinPCD, by David Ralph (dlr on TT here). If you like Jeff Bagby's PCD, you'll feel right at home with WinPCD. It does the job admirably, has a simple interface, and an easy learning curve. Why mess with anything complicated?

https://www.speakerdesign.net/

Which is why WinIsd for box design, Edge for baffle and diffraction, and PSD-lite for crossover have worked well enough for me. I threw away my Sound Easy for this very reason.
Use OEM plots to pick drivers
Use WinIsl to design a box. Advice from Edge on baffle design.
Protorype box and measure far-field. ( I use 1M ) Measure 0, 15, and 30 degrees or whatever is likely to be the in-use angle. ( A DIY can actually measure in-position which an OEM can't ever guess)
Use these .frs and .imp files into the Psd-lite. as they have true baffle, offset, position, and all reality included.
Build the suggestion
Measure reality.
Tune.

One of the mistakes I see beginners is to build the final box before they have measured anything in reality. MDF is cheap. PROTOTYPE! I prototype with cheap electrolytics.

[LOUT]

Which is why WinIsd for box design, Edge for baffle and diffraction, and PSD-lite for crossover have worked well enough for me. I threw away my Sound Easy for this very reason.
Use OEM plots to pick drivers
Use WinIsl to design a box. Advice from Edge on baffle design.
Protorype box and measure far-field. ( I use 1M ) Measure 0, 15, and 30 degrees or whatever is likely to be the in-use angle. ( A DIY can actually measure in-position which an OEM can't ever guess)
Use these .frs and .imp files into the Psd-lite. as they have true baffle, offset, position, and all reality included.
Build the suggestion
Measure reality.
Tune.
One of the mistakes I see beginners is to build the final box before they have measured anything in reality. MDF is cheap. PROTOTYPE! I prototype with cheap electrolytics.

I don't know how to import simulated data from the diffraction+baffle into the cab or FR/XO model (don't know if my older versions of Vituix even CAN), and while you can import XO response into the cab model, I don't know if you can import cab response/impulse into the XO/RF model. So I basically treat VituixCAD like 3 different programs...a CAB sim, a rough diffraction modeller, and an XO/200-500hz+ sim.
I used to use WinISD for cab modelling, but it was weirdly unstable for me (freezing and crashing despite a couple different installations) and I think Vituix does most/everything WinISD does inside its Eclosure/cab tool now. I haven't heard anyone else mentioned unstability in WinISD so I'm guessing that's just a me thing, but I don't need both programs anymore....I also prefer Vituix's Enclosure tool's multi-graph view compared to my experiences with WinISD needing to manually open multiple windows for important info, sometimes being forced to close one before being allowed to open another graph. Not sure if that was just a quirk of an old version though.
The baffle-step sim in Vituix is pretty simplistic (in the diffraction tab of the Enclosure tool), but like you mentioned, measuring the true response is always going to be much more accurate...so the baffle/diffraction sim is just a nice rough starting-point.
The current versions of Vituix switched over to what seems to be the more common drag+drop individual component (build your whole PCB from scratch) thingy, so I no longer needed the separate software for that flexibility anymore (can't remember which one I was using...found it here on the PETT forum I think).
All of those features weren't much different or more/less complex between Vituix and their separate programs I was previously using, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything there. I can't speak to the measurement inputs on Vituix though...that might be super crappy compared to other software for all I know (though I suspect it's pretty much the same).
Not sure if V has an actual parts/cut-list feature, but I'm used to doing the simple math with a calculator and paper anyway (then finding errors and feeling dumb, lol).
Basically a Vituix apologist at this point.

[tvrgeek]

I had more trouble with the new version of WinIsd. older version (.5) is solid

[LOUT]

I think I was using it about 1.5years ago. Do you know if that was more likely the new/current version or the older 0.5version?
In my case it might've been a problem with Win7 or Win8.1 (not sure which I was using), or maybe something else...I don't want to blame the program too unfairly, more just explaining why I was so happy when I realized it was possible to consolidate over to the other software I was already using without losing major features.

[GaryRoach]

Thanks,everyone, for your replies. First: If you click the Enable button before you enter data in the filter window, the process doesn't work. That was my error. If done the other way around things work fine. Problem 1 solved.

Boy tvrgeek wish we could get some of your rain. Souther California is dry as a bone and burning all over the place. The sun is bright orange most days.

I'm not quite ready to tackle the crossover page but need to be able to test the enclosure design at full power. How do I do that?

GaryR

[LOUT]

I'm not quite ready to tackle the crossover page but need to be able to test the enclosure design at full power. How do I do that?

Is this what you're asking about or are you looking for something different?

In the Enclosure tool, you should have a voltage option near the middle/left called "Source" which will default at 2.83v (about 1watt into 8ohm or 2watts at 4ohms)...you can mouse-wheel up/down or type different numbers to increase or decrease the voltage here....the wattage should show in the graph labelled "Power" while the Vent velocity should show in the graph labelled "Velocity" and the excursion will on the Excursion graph.
It'll also show the Peak Velocity when you click the "Info" tab next to the "Enclosure" tab....it'll be labelled "VmaxR m/s"....this is super handy since the graph seems to only go to 20m/s by default while I've heard a more realistic PeakVelocity to aim for is around 55m/s (though I could be wrong there).

Or are you asking how to input measured real-world data from your enclosure into the sim/program? Sorry for my confusion.

[GaryRoach]

No. You got it right the first time. I wasn't sure whether the voltage would do what you suggested. Looking at the power level graph is a great idea. Thanks

GaryR

[GaryRoach]

OK. I now have pretty solid enclosure design using a Dayton DS215-8 woofer. See the attached screen shots. I have read over the instructions - several times - for using the main screen and am completely confused. How do I get my enclosure attached to my high pass filter to test the complete system. In addition, I have never figured out how to add actual driver data to replace the default Driver #1 in the cross over design window. Could anyone help?



GaryR