Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Subwoofer decision agony for serious music-only setup... please help

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Subwoofer decision agony for serious music-only setup... please help

    What is up Tech Talk...

    Looking for a sealed music-only subwoofer(s) setup for medium-sized bedroom, to compliment my HiVi 3.1's (6.5" vented 3-ways, about .75 cu ft IIRC). Sound quality > SPL for sure, but I want it to sound big enough.

    Size: 1 cu ft max for a single sub.... .75 cu ft max each for dual subs.

    Amplifier(s): I don't have amp(s) for it yet. I put this up front, because it has instant implications on the options:
    • Willing-but-wary of little plate amps, despite my bad experience with a fried SA250. Talk me into it.
    • Rack mount subwoofer amps are nice. I love my SA230 powering a sealed 12" in my home theater... but two of them feels a bit silly if I go with dual subs.
    • 2-channel pro-audio amp are a possibility, but I hate how loud they are. Any nice way to replace/modify/improve the noisy fan setup?

    Cost: All under $700. Ooph. Yes I know this is quite limiting.

    Not-Good-Enough Benchmark: To put it lightly. I got lazy and bought a Cambridge Minx 8" sub with a passive radiator and was instantly underwhelmed. It's definitely too small for this room, and any attempts to turn it up to compensate quickly reminds you that at the end of the day, despite all the Shakespearean sonnets written about it in the Crutchfield reviews, it's a small sub in a plastic enclosure, you dummy. I should know better. Womp womp.

    Good-Enough Benchmark: I'd love to put a Dayton Reference 12" sealed sub of 1.5-2.0 cubic feet in in here and be done with it.... that's what I have in my home theater, in a similar-sized room, with an SA230 rack amp, and I want for nothing. But a 1.5+ cu ft sub is too big to keep the beloved shorty happy, so no dice there. There's just no good place to put it...

    So now I'm thinking one of the following scenarios:
    • 2 smaller 8" sealed subs, like the PE 8" kit.
      • Room placement is easy. Lots of options.
      • I like how the dual subs will even out room response, and with the fancy-pants DSP on each I'll have lots of freedom to really dial it in.
      • Again, I'm wary of these little plate amps... but this is a newer design, so maybe reliability is not such an issue?
      • Despite "two of them" they still seem awfully small. I'm spoiled by the Dayton 12, worried about being underwhelmed again.
      • For some reason it's hurts my brain when a sub enclosure is decidedly smaller than the mains it is complementing. This might be completely irrational; you are invited to help me get over it....
    Click image for larger version  Name:	300-7150_ALT_3.jpg?resizeid=106&resizeh=1200&resizew=1200.jpg Views:	0 Size:	104.6 KB ID:	1462482
    • OR.... The Dayton 10" Kit with Dual Passive Radiators. Just one. Happy to be talked into it.
      • My gut tells me I won't be underwhelmed.... Will I?
      • Can likely hang with my 12"-sealed-benchmark in terms of output.
      • 500 watt rms is impressive (or whatever it actually is, it's good enough you sticklers ). I'm a believer in plenty of power.
      • Doesn't reap the rewards of dual subs and how they can even out room response.
      • Placement options more limited, but not too bad. Pushing the limits of too big.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	300-7152_HR_0.default.jpg?resizeid=106&resizeh=1200&resizew=1200.jpg Views:	0 Size:	220.0 KB ID:	1462483
    • OR.... Two PE .75 cu ft sub enclosures, with 8" or 10" driver yet to be determined.
      • This strikes be as the ideal. Big enough, with all the advantages of dual subs.
      • But cost quickly goes through the roof, unless the drivers are on the cheap side.... are there any options out there that can hang with the Dayton Reference series (note that this is the benchmark of quality for the previous two options).
      • How do I power them?
        • Again, cheap little plate amps spook me. Talk me into it.
        • A somehow-made-quiet pro-audio amp comes to mind, but that won't have the "bass boost" feature that dedicated subwoofer amps. Hrrrmph.
        • Dual SA230's would be amazing, but that blows the budget and the gf wouldn't like it... too much rack gear.
    • OR.... Whatever other option you're already thinking that I haven't though of. Let's hear it.

    Thanks

    Dan
    Form does not follow function
    Form is simultaneous to function

  • #2
    Bagby Baby Boomer at Meniscus. 10" Dayton in a 12" cube PE flat pack. 2 PRs or port. Yung amp.

    I have 2 PE 8" RS kits with the 250dsp amps, very happy. Different rooms. Super simple build, best used with a source into the sub and the stereo amp downstream of the sub, in and out so to speak. Great for a PC. Total control of the crossover point, slopes etc. The 500 dsp uses the same software. Set with a windows PC or a knob on the amp.

    One of the 250dsp units is a few years old, no trouble.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0026.JPG
Views:	543
Size:	740.6 KB
ID:	1462486 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0029.JPG
Views:	533
Size:	455.9 KB
ID:	1462487

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0028.JPG
Views:	546
Size:	810.3 KB
ID:	1462488

    Comment


    • #3
      The DCS255-4Classic 10 is plenty of driver for a bedroom, especially if you use two. The SPA250 DSP is a good match, and a pair won't exceed your budget.
      www.billfitzmaurice.com
      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

      Comment


      • #4
        Two Denovo 0.67 cu ft boxes, which will need to be braced. $42 each.Two RSS HF 10" 4 Ohm subs $145 each. One Crown XLS 1002, $349. Total $723.

        You will not hear the fans come on - that will only happen when the music is quite loud.

        The Crown can handle the crossover, but if you do not have EQ in your system already, consider a mindsp or a Dayton LSP-LF and a y-splitter once your budget can handle it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by djg View Post
          Bagby Baby Boomer at Meniscus. 10" Dayton in a 12" cube PE flat pack. 2 PRs or port. Yung amp.
          Wow, quite inexpensive. On backorder unfortunately, although I suppose I could piece together something similar directly on PE.

          If I used a separate amp instead of the plate amp, would the volume still make sense?

          Form does not follow function
          Form is simultaneous to function

          Comment


          • djg
            djg commented
            Editing a comment
            Looks like the SD300-6 is open back, so very little volume change without the amp. It was designed to be small, competent designer.

        • #6
          Originally posted by hex168 View Post
          Two Denovo 0.67 cu ft boxes, which will need to be braced. $42 each.Two RSS HF 10" 4 Ohm subs $145 each. One Crown XLS 1002, $349. Total $723.

          You will not hear the fans come on - that will only happen when the music is quite loud.

          The Crown can handle the crossover, but if you do not have EQ in your system already, consider a mindsp or a Dayton LSP-LF and a y-splitter once your budget can handle it.
          Wow that sounds like a great option, thanks..... Sealed or ported?
          Form does not follow function
          Form is simultaneous to function

          Comment


          • #7
            +1 for Crown XLS amps. Completely silent.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by djg View Post
              I have 2 PE 8" RS kits with the 250dsp amps, very happy. Different rooms. Super simple build, best used with a source into the sub and the stereo amp downstream of the sub, in and out so to speak. Great for a PC. Total control of the crossover point, slopes etc. The 500 dsp uses the same software. Set with a windows PC or a knob on the amp.

              One of the 250dsp units is a few years old, no trouble.
              Yes, this option really is appealling. Small, simple to build, people seem to like it.

              Just to confirm, do you think I'll be happy with the output of two of them in my medium-sized bedroom?

              And will they sound good with my not-that-small mains? Very often subs this size are recommended as "a good match for small satellites in a small-ish system" (or whatever).... will they integrate well with the 3x-larger-volume Hi-Vi's?

              Thanks

              Form does not follow function
              Form is simultaneous to function

              Comment


              • djg
                djg commented
                Editing a comment
                Bedroom, music only, no Marvel Comic Universe? I hate to have you spend $600 on my account, but I'll venture a "yes". I have several pairs of 2 way TMs I play in my PC 2.1. 3" to 5 1/4" DIY. I also recently purchased a pair of Kali LP-6 active monitors as a DIY hobby sanity check. Those are 6 1/2" two ways. I found them surprisingly weak in the bass, after the gushing reviews everywhere. The little 8" dsp sub works with all of these. I'm using 400 watts of Outlaw monoblocks BTW.

                There's always the "what if I'd bought the 10" factor.

            • #9
              Originally posted by JensToft91 View Post
              +1 for Crown XLS amps. Completely silent.
              Yes, very appealling.... but I don't have any eq to "bass boost" them.... dedicated sub amps all seem to have said feature, so is this a concern?

              Also no dsp, which from what I've read is a nice feature for subs.
              Form does not follow function
              Form is simultaneous to function

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                The DCS255-4Classic 10 is plenty of driver for a bedroom, especially if you use two. The SPA250 DSP is a good match, and a pair won't exceed your budget.
                Thanks Bill. Looks like they fit in the small Denovo .67 cu ft cabinet, which is fantastic for room placement, and my gut tells me I'll be happier with dual 10's as opposed to dual 8's (although the dual 8's are a higher end driver so I'm not sure of that).

                Any thoughts on two of these vs two of the PE Sealed 8's? For sure the vented 10's will dig deeper and have higher output, but what about sound quality?
                Form does not follow function
                Form is simultaneous to function

                Comment


                • #11
                  Two of the Bagby Baby Boomers with SPA250's seems perfect..... the small .67 cu ft cabinets with 10's makes sense.

                  Regarding the option of ports vs passive radiators (haven't decided yet), can someone please point me to which PE parts these are? The meniscus kits are on backorder unfortunately, and Meniscus doesn't specify.

                  I'm leaning towards the ported version to save cost, but I'm not convinced of this.... any opinions?

                  Also, would mounting the SPA250's in the box mess with the volume too much? Easy enough to mount them externally I suppose.
                  Form does not follow function
                  Form is simultaneous to function

                  Comment


                • #12
                  The last thing I'll say is that the 8" DSP kit is at a very good price. A $200 amp, $100 speaker, flat pack enclosure and a sheet of peel and stick sound foam for $300, $250 when on sale.

                  Comment


                  • lunchmoney
                    lunchmoney commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No doubt. The cost plus the WAF-friendly size is great.... but I can already hear the "what if I'd gotten the 10's" factor, as you mentioned.

                • #13
                  Regarding vented vs PR's for the Baby Boomer, it occurred to me that using the PR's plus a plate amp really hinders the ability to add bracing, and therefore maybe ported is better.... or does PR's still have the advantage?

                  I know the PR vs vented debate has been beaten to death, but I've never heard mention of its impact on bracing (or lack thereof) in a compact enclosure.

                  Thoughts?
                  Form does not follow function
                  Form is simultaneous to function

                  Comment


                  • djg
                    djg commented
                    Editing a comment
                    There's nothing to brace with 2 PRs, a speaker and plate amp except top to bottom. The rest is four big holes.

                  • lunchmoney
                    lunchmoney commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Understood.... but does this result in an enclosure that doesn't sound as good as a ported one with bracing?

                  • buggers
                    buggers commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I doubt if you would hear the difference...

                • #14
                  Originally posted by lunchmoney View Post
                  Any thoughts on two of these vs two of the PE Sealed 8's? For sure the vented 10's will dig deeper and have higher output, but what about sound quality?
                  Vented 10s? You'd need to go to 2 cu ft net to make that worthwhile, and you'd not notice it with music only. The Classic 10 Sub has more Vd than the HO 8, so it will have more output for less money. As for sound quality, there's precious little difference between decent drivers below 100Hz. 99% of what accounts for what we perceive as sound quality happens above 100Hz.
                  www.billfitzmaurice.com
                  www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                    Vented 10s? You'd need to go to 2 cu ft net to make that worthwhile, and you'd not notice it with music only. The Classic 10 Sub has more Vd than the HO 8, so it will have more output for less money. As for sound quality, there's precious little difference between decent drivers below 100Hz. 99% of what accounts for what we perceive as sound quality happens above 100Hz.
                    Ok I'm a bit puzzled now.... The Bagby Baby Boomer uses a Dayton 10 in a very small .75 cu ft vented enclosure, not 2 cu ft.... am I missing something here?
                    Form does not follow function
                    Form is simultaneous to function

                    Comment


                    • lunchmoney
                      lunchmoney commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Maybe the vented version of the Baby Boomer uses a bigger enclosure and I'm confused... that would make more sense...?
                  Working...
                  X