Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Speaker Cables Really Don't Make Much of a Difference?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Bod is absolutely playing to his market. Artists on the whole are no more well educated in gear than the average person, and are just as susceptible to confirmation bias and placebo effect, not to mention ego stroking by those trying to sell them on a service or product.
    www.billfitzmaurice.com
    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

    Comment


    • #32
      Someone mentioned connectors....

      How about Electra Cable Tube Connectors? Are they that much better than normal metal binding posts?

      I like the low profile and easy mounting, but don't know if they really sound better.

      Marv

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by wogg View Post

        Bob is probably playing to his market.... just guessing. For example, there's no mention of cabling other than avoiding analog patch bays on Bob Katz's Studio A description.

        I doubt they use anything budget, but I also doubt they're going beyond standard tech decent shielded balanced wire everywhere with quality termination. That's all you need... pretty much as everyone has stated already.
        Those are two very different studios with two very different build budgets. For example, Ludwig's custom Egglestons are 775 pounds each and are located on separate large deep concrete foundations that are isolated from the floor and its supporting structure. The audio gear is all separated from the power grid, runs on large batteries and pure sine inverters. The architectural design was optimized primarily for acoustic quality above all other consideration. ...etc.





        "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
        of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
        - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
        A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
        (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

        Comment


        • djg
          djg commented
          Editing a comment
          No one else will ever hear his products on anything approaching that. I like nice things, i hope he enjoys his system.

        • wogg
          wogg commented
          Editing a comment
          Katz has 3 Grammy's himself. So there you go... esoteric cables = more Grammys.

          (sarcasm, obviously)

      • #34
        Originally posted by marvin View Post
        Someone mentioned connectors....

        How about Electra Cable Tube Connectors? Are they that much better than normal metal binding posts?

        I like the low profile and easy mounting, but don't know if they really sound better.

        Marv
        They are no better than standard posts, Marvin. You can get lo-pro jacks from Pomona for cheaper.
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

        Comment


        • #35
          Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
          Pastries tasting better out of a pink box is another great example of sighted bias. We are probably no different - except we tend to focus on branding/materials, not necessarily pricing. Phase can be affected by as little as .1uF, and some people are pretty good at picking up on that.
          Mark Twain smoked cheap cigars. Many he associated with smoked the expensive ones. He invited 20 guests to dinner. Handed out the expensive cigars to his guests as they left. He had put the bands from his cheap cigars on them. He found 19 of the 20 laying on the street after.

          You would think common sense would have more effect. I've had audiophiles say ABX tests are no good due to "listener fatigue". One guy argued that a special CD disk treatment, (grinding an angle on the rim, then painting it with a sharpie to reduce reflections, the device cost 800 dollars) made a difference. I suggested dumping the data of the CD into a computer file. Then treat the disk, dump again. I said, "if every byte is identical in both, there is no difference." He said, "not necessarily"

          If you want lower resistance, you might find plain silver wire not sold by a cable company cheaper than some of this fancy stuff they sell. OFC is so silly. the conductivity is only a few percent. I can beat your OFC with a plain copper wire one gauge bigger. And this stuff done to reduce capacitance, like twin lead (probably a cheap, reasonable choice) Why not just use 2 single conductor wires? Lay them several inches apart if you like.

          Just use decent wire, and keep the runs short.

          The principle reason they think the wire sounds better, is that they just spent so much money, it darn well has to sound better. Too much buyer remorse, cognitive dissonance, and generally looking like a fool to think otherwise. Imagine the sound improvement they could have gained if they spent the money on better gear.

          Comment


          • #36
            Originally posted by cloudbuster View Post

            Just use decent wire, and keep the runs short.
            Best to keep the loudspeaker cables short by locating the loudspeaker amplifiers near the loudspeakers, and use balanced interconnection to those amplifiers.

            There is nothing that performs measurably better than a fully adequate solution, and fully adequate audio cables do not have to be expensive. That said, with sighted listening the aesthetics can affect perceptions, and that should not be ignored.
            "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
            of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
            - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
            A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
            (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

            Comment


            • #37
              Originally posted by JRT View Post
              .... the aesthetics can affect perceptions, and that should not be ignored.
              this one is funny and shows how perception can affect opinion.
              https://youtu.be/xIJEw5aDzOo?t=91

              Comment


              • JRT
                JRT commented
                Editing a comment
                Some of that points toward the failings of sighted comparisons. There are many easily deluded into falsely believing that some big differences exist where they don't. And there are others self-deluded into falsely believing that they are exceptional, falsely believing that they are immune from having preconceived biases and/or from having their biases manipulated by others.

            • #38
              Someone cue up the Doobie Brothers:
              www.billfitzmaurice.com
              www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

              Comment


              • #39
                Originally posted by invaderzim View Post

                this one is funny and shows how perception can affect opinion.
                https://youtu.be/xIJEw5aDzOo?t=91

                For a different example of the strange behavior of normal human perception, a pharmaceutical placebo can have some effect on how some symptoms might be perceived even when the person taking the placebo knows that it is a placebo.

                https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...o-201607079926


                "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
                of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
                - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
                A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
                (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

                Comment


                • #40
                  Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post

                  Of course cables can and do sound different - as discussed many times, it isn't due to magic it is due to reactance. Some cables are deliberately (poorly) constructed to roll of the top or bottom end. The "improvements" are due to linear distortion. There are three measurable attributes in a cable - inductance, capacitance, resistance. All will affect what happens at the terminus, sometimes audibly. The error is when people make statements like "more bass" - what that should read is "something is killing the mids and treble".

                  <snip>.
                  ^This.
                  Even LMS will measure a rising impedance in the audio band of stranded cable, as opposed to a cable with better "geometry".
                  With the right music passage, and 12ga stranded wire to the tweeter, I can make you identify it in A/B comparison with a single jacket of Cat5 cable. It will sound veiled and "sluggish".
                  --

                  Philip Bamberg
                  BambergAudio.com

                  Comment


                  • #41
                    I once had an "audiphile" tell me that if I didn't believe in different cables, I should wire my speakers with a pair of the conductors inside a CAT-5 cable (Belden) and "hear" the difference.

                    I told him that a 0.3 Ohm resistor would do the same trick. He didn't understand my point...
                    Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
                    2-2.5 Way:
                    Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
                    3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

                    Comment


                    • #42
                      Originally posted by jim85iroc View Post
                      It's the oldest trick in the book. Tell someone what they're supposed to hear, and they'll hear it.
                      The power cable nonsense is pretty funny.

                      The reviewer should notify Pass Labs that they need to stop including such grossly inferior power cables with their amplifiers, and maybe redesign the power supplies.



                      "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
                      of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
                      - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
                      A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
                      (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

                      Comment


                      • #43
                        Originally posted by JRT View Post

                        The power cable nonsense is pretty funny.

                        The reviewer should notify Pass Labs that they need to stop including such grossly inferior power cables with their amplifiers, and maybe redesign the power supplies.


                        Right? Mine just came with an ordinary large gauge Belden cord. Obviously there are great improvements to be made!

                        Nelson Pass is remarkably patient with the snake oil crowd. He simply says he likes his power cord, and his amplifiers are designed to be insensitive to power cord choice or speaker wire choice.
                        Francis

                        Comment


                        • #44
                          Steve Guttenberg is the Will Rogers of audio. He's never met any snake oil that he didn't like.
                          www.billfitzmaurice.com
                          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                          Comment


                          • JRT
                            JRT commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Here you go Bill, its almost like he is speaking directly to you.

                            "Steve Guttenberg (The Audiophiliac) welcomes cable deniers, high-end doubters, blind test advocates"



                            And...

                            "Steve Guttenberg (The Audiophiliac): Audiophile cables? Snake oil? Give it a rest!"


                        • #45
                          Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                          Steve Guttenberg is the Will Rogers of audio. He's never met any snake oil that he didn't like.
                          I'm guessing there's a profit motive.
                          Francis

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X