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best MTM /best drivers for MTM ?

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  • best MTM /best drivers for MTM ?

    if you were to build a high end MTM would you use Satori ,Revelators or Illuminators ? for tweeter ribbon , beryllium or other ?
    someone may already have one using these drivers !?

  • #2
    I used Focal 5n313 matched pairs for my mid bass drivers. Flat to 10 khz. For the tweeter I used a Dynaudio D-28 horn loaded to ease the
    time alignment. It was one of the few that could keep up with the 5n313s 95db output. I also used a 6db/ octave crossover at 2khz. Not many tweeters
    will go low enough without honking with a 4 octave overlap.It took almost another 2 years to adjust phasing so all drivers were in phase through the
    entire passband. Unfortunately non of these drivers are available anymore as raw drivers. I am a big D'appolito fan. Speaker builder magazine 4/84
    gives the entire theory behind the alignment required to produce point source with 3 drivers. Also don't like 18db crossovers (tendency to ring)
    I have heard Morel is making a pretty close clone to mighty D-28 tweeter. Good luck with your MTM.


    • AEIOU
      AEIOU commented
      Editing a comment
      So what, I used pairs of the FOCAL 5N411 with a passive radiator along with a DYNAUDIO D-21, but that was a very long time ago. Your reply isn't worth much, since as you said, none of the drivers mentioned are available anymore. And apparently you are unaware that MOREL has continued to improve, surpassing DYNAUDIO.

  • #3
    I know Troels Gravesen has a Scanpeak (Revelator tweeter and Discovery woofer) and an all Satori MTM. I didn't Google too see if he had others.


    • #4
      Troels doesn't much go for MTM but here are the two examples where he does.

      Personally I'd go with SB Satori drivers. (SB acoustics engineers are ex scan speak and you get better value, and by better value it doesn't mean that because they cost less they aren't as good!)
      Constructions: Dayton+SB 2-Way v1 | Dayton+SB 2-Way v2 | Fabios (SB Monitors)
      Refurbs: KLH 2 | Rega Ela Mk1


      • #5
        I wouldn't use anything that cost more than perhaps $80 each, as there's precious little difference between an $80 driver and a $250 driver, other than the price.


        • #6
          The Peerless HDS455 MTM was sold in Oz as a kit and is NLA, but the drivers are still available: Peerless HDS 830883 6.5" and 810921 tweeter, sometimes sold as a ScanSpeak.

          A modified crossover network used to be available a firm in Qld:

          I haven't heard them of course but they were widely sold and well received. Driver cost (in $A) is about $90ea for the woofer and $150 ea for the tweeter. I think the US costs are about $60 and $100 respectively but I haven't looked them up.

          Last edited by Geoff Millar; 05-30-2021, 07:57 AM.


          • #7
            The only reason I even posted anything was because no body else seemed interested after 8 hours ! Least we got
            a few replies ! Hope you all have a great memorial holiday.


            • #8
              I haven't actually built a high end MTM, but if I were I would be looking at Morel Supreme, Dayton Esoteric, or CSS drivers.


              • #9
                a lot of good suggestions . its interesting to see the Scan Revelator tweeter still so well thought of .


                • #10
                  It's a reference and benchmark that stands the test of time in that a LOT of upper scale domes still strive to match it. It is just that well thought out.
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by donc View Post
                    if you were to build a high end MTM would you use Satori ,Revelators or Illuminators ? for tweeter ribbon , beryllium or other ?
                    someone may already have one using these drivers !?
                    If I had to chose drivers for an MTM right now at this moment, I'd do Scanspeak Illuminator 18WU/8747T-00 since they're currently discounted, and some ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6040-10 beryllium domes to go with them. Four of those aluminum 18cm woofs at 9mm Xmax could put out some nice bass on their own in the right room, placed properly. The tiny Scan berylliums can cross low enough to play nice with the aluminum woofers.

                    Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.

                    Scanspeak Revelator R2904/7000's, Scanspeak Revelator 15M/4531K00's, Scanspeak Revelator 22W/8857T00's, Eminence NSW6021's.
                    MiniDSP 4x10HD. ICE Power amplification and an iNuke 3000.

                    Sennheiser HD650's powered by TEAC amplification.


                    • #12
                      Though I've never personally used the Illuminator 18w, I agree with Ray that all the ones I've heard sound amazing. The caveat is they need a fairly large cabinet to get low f3, so plan on a floor stander if you use them. The answer to your question really depends on the size cabinet you're after. If you want smaller cabinets I think I'd look at the 15w over the 18w.

                      I do have the Revelator 18w in a TMWW build I did, and those have some of the best bass I've ever heard, very musical. Be interesting to hear the 18w Revelator next to the Illuminator.

                      For tweeters, if you do intend on using a 18w I wouldn't use a ribbon. Possibly a AMT, like the Aurum Cantus 2460 will play fairly low. You mentioned beryllium, which are generally very good sounding but expensive. I also really like the Satori dome tweeters a lot as well.
                      "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                      "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP


                      • AEIOU
                        AEIOU commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Yeah, Beryllium domes are freakin expensive and a bit fragile too. Even if I could afford them, I wouldn't.

                    • #13
                      I don't know about high-end mtm, but if I was going to attempt an all out mtm, I think I'd want a tweeter with a small wave-guide. That tweeter selection might limit usable woofers. A lot depends on how loud you want to play them. It's a catch22. . The problem as I see it, is that the diffraction caused by the two nearby woofers will cause problems with the tweeter response. .

                      I did have an mtm a while back that used buyout Peerless HDS woofers, and a traditional Morel tweeter. I liked that speaker just fine, and I thought it was pretty much high-end, but high-end relative to what? I recall having the x-over more or less finished, but I made a small change that really made a difference. Probably got lucky.


                      • #14
                        You might want to look at the new Epique 5.5" and 7" drivers, the E150HE-44 and E180HE-44. I posted some preliminary measurements and TS parameters that I received from PE in the thread on those drivers. They have low sensitivity, but make up for that in a deep low end, with a tremendous amount of excursion, low distortion, extended, smooth response and well controlled breakup.
                        Dan N.


                        • #15
                          this is how i think of it. I define my room size (intended application) and then speaker size.
                          Then think 2 way- for a portable speaker, or MTM or 3 way for one that stays put (all that space under a speaker stand is dead space, may as well make good use of it)

                          Then why MTM instead of WMT, or Just MT?

                          Easier to design crossover? (About the same difficulty as a 2 way?)
                          when the MT has enough bass but you want more SPL? sensitivity)

                          otherwise you'd just do a 3 way or a 2 way- less bother and potential for better speaker.

                          so then i say choose a midwoofer that gets you low enough [for your bass/room needs] in a cabinet that’s half your requirements.

                          contenders ~$100
                          Peerless NE180W-08
                          Epique or Esoteric- goes low, but low sensitivity

                          Not contenders-
                          any $200+ midwoofer -a quad will set you back $800, but this amount of $ gets you into 3 way territory