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  • #16
    FYI - Bypass caps are routinely used in RF circuitry, typically on the power supply lines near power devices. At that location, you'll see a electrolytic bypassed with 1 or more small value ceramic to cut the ESR at high frequencies.

    So they do have engineering merit, but much like other things applicable at high frequencies they do very little down where humans can hear (i.e. skin effect and transmission line impedance matching).
    Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
    Wogg Music
    Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DeZZar View Post
      I tried Cornell Dubilier 940C 0.01uF 500Vac which this guy raves about here http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html.
      Tony Gee must be able to hear ants fart to write the stuff he does comparing caps so I take all this with a pinch of salt.
      More like a truckload of salt. Everything he talks about can be measured, to a far higher degree than can be heard, but there's none to be found. How they supposedly sound is purely subjective, which would be of some value if his method was double blind testing with multiple test subjects, but it's not. Coke versus Pepsi taste tests have more validity.
      www.billfitzmaurice.com
      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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      • #18
        Maybe if we supercharge the bypass caps?
        Francis

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        • #19
          Great bit.if info here, I've been struggling to justify buying 100 and 150uf caps due to the cost and wondering why I can't use a non polarized 100v cap, didn't know from DeZZar link that so much thought and quality of sound relates to them

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          • Unbiasedsound
            Unbiasedsound commented
            Editing a comment
            I seen a vid where he explained that a small by pass cap used in parallel with a larger value cap like 100uf and over can help improve sound quality. I am going to try this with my 125uf NPE caps with a 1uf Jantzen cap. If you like I can post you the vid in PM but I wont post the link in here as some people do not like him.

        • #20
          Originally posted by 3rutu5 View Post
          Great bit.if info here, I've been struggling to justify buying 100 and 150uf caps due to the cost and wondering why I can't use a non polarized 100v cap, didn't know from DeZZar link that so much thought and quality of sound relates to them
          Sure I'll like to understand a fee different points of view

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          • #21
            My 3.7 cents (inflation, old age etc.) bypass caps are important at "broadcast" radio frequencies and very important at shortwave frequencies and VERY VERY important at near VHF (28-30 MHz) 10 meter and 50-54Mhz (6 meter) (low VHF) Ham band frequencies (near the old TV channel 6) Soooooo I think an awful lot of RF tech was rightfully carried over to early good toob Hi-Fi AMPs and tuners so carry everything over to speakers et al? We're also talking about now 80-85 year-old oil-filled caps, not made to the specs of the electrolytics in Voyager I & II we can buy much better quality today for pennies, not NASA hyper-bucks.

            I attempt to beat this into U-toobers heads about 1939 straight 8 Buick RoadMaster DynaFlos (My parents had a '38) compared to a 4 banger Honda Accord 2 Liter autotransaxle. Nobody EVER drove a Road Master 450,000 miles without SEVERAL(dozen???) major engine and tranny overhauls, but that from an Accord doesn't raise an eyebrow at the used auction lot, does it? I got one from Rent-A-Wreck with just shy of a half million, CarFax said never opened, ran fine 220 miles Tulsa, to OKC and back and I didn't sweat it.

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            • #22
              By pass caps absolutely works for me. I wouldnt even have thought that a 0.01uf cap can change the sound so much since the value is so small. I use to think the higher values sound would dominate. I used a 0.01uf Audiocap Theta on a 125uf NPE and it changed it more to the sound signature of the Theta cap. This is a cheap alternative to buying the more expensive higher value caps.

              Also what I have noticed with the Theta cap is that the lower frequencies especially the bass sounds different. Can a change in the high frequencies change the way the bass sounds? Even the dayton film foil caps change the sound of the bass as well but its not as clean as the Theta.
              Last edited by Unbiasedsound; 09-20-2021, 11:27 PM.

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              • LOUT
                LOUT commented
                Editing a comment
                If the large NPE has enough inductance to affect the sound, I think a tiny cap in parallel (even another NPE) should lessen that impedance amount down to half or probably much lower.
                I'm not sure if high inductance is a thing for large caps or not though...or NPE's.

            • #23
              Also either the caps sound changed or its my ears or both? Is there break in period with caps? It seems the Daytons film and foil caps smoothed out even more and maybe more then the Theta.

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              • #24
                Caps do not break in. Full stop.

                A PCS band amplifier (1.8GHz) can be assembled on a line with a variety of capacitor types straight off a reel and hit specifications for field deployment and continuous service for years. That would not be possible if caps changed with break in.
                Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                Wogg Music
                Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

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                • #25
                  Even noticed a change in the Jantzen Z standard caps after the first 5 minutes or so it sounded weird then all of a sudden it changed as I had the song on repeat.

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                  • #26
                    On the DIY forum someone asked if changing the capacitor in a second order low pass Xover will change the sound and most of them said no. I changed the Dayton cap to a brand spanking new Jantzen Z standard cap and the sound changed to my liking as it smoothed out the harshness/sharpness of the dayton cap. Now I can listen to them longer without fatigue.

                    Like I mentioned in my above post though it sounded weird the first 5 minutes but after it seem to fall into place.

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                    • #27
                      After longer listening test although the Theta cap is the clearest and most detailed I find them after prolong listening sessions to be fatiguing. Even the Dayton film and foil can be fatiguing. For me the winner is the Jantzen Z standard as its the smoothest or neutral of the three caps.

                      I also tried to combine different brands of caps together but the Jantzen Z standard alone sounded the best on its own. My next goal is to upgrade to the Jantzen Z Superior caps.

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                      • #28
                        Originally posted by wogg View Post
                        Caps do not break in. Full stop.
                        Electrolytic capacitors need to be formed when new, and if stored unused for an extended interval will need to be reformed by applying charge with controlled/reduced current into the capacitor (e.g. through a suitable resistance). If that forming/reforming does not qualify as a break-in procedure, what does?

                        The example video below is not referencing an audio related product, but is related to the nature of electrolytic capacitors regardless application. Something to think about if you buy a power amplifier with a linear power supply that has been unused in storage for more than a few years, or one that someone is reselling after similar circumstances (e.g. a buyer/reseller powers up amplifier acquired after having been stored for 15 years, then resells it to you, and you soon need to re-cap it because the electrolytic caps were unwittingly damaged because were not properly reformed before that initial post-storage power-up).

                        "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
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                        (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

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                        • #29
                          Originally posted by JRT View Post

                          Electrolytic capacitors need to be formed when new, and if stored unused for an extended interval will need to be reformed by applying charge with controlled/reduced current into the capacitor (e.g. through a suitable resistance). If that forming/reforming does not qualify as a break-in procedure, what does?

                          The example video is not referencing an audio related product, but is related to the nature of electrolytic capacitors regardless application. Something to think about if you buy a power amplifier with a linear power supply that has been unused in storage for more than a few years.

                          That's interesting, applicable to electrolytics specifically of course, but some new information for me. Of course, electrolytics were never used in the RF sections of the amplifiers I'm talking about so this behavior is not something I saw in manufacturing years ago. Tantalum was the go to for the polarized larger value caps used to isolate the DC power bus going the RF power devices, bypassed by a series of smaller value ceramics. The critical resonant parts, where a small drift in value would mean a non-functional amp were typically ceramics. You don't need large values for a 2GHz tank.

                          I'll stand by my statement, and add qualification for ceramic, poly, film, or tantalum capacitors
                          Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                          Wogg Music
                          Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

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                          • #30
                            Damn on the DIY forum there is like a 31 pages of discussing that different types of caps make no difference in sound. I guess to some NPE sound exactly like the higher end caps, I wouldnt trade my ears for theirs. LOL

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