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3rutu5 epic failure series - july edition

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  • 3rutu5 epic failure series - july edition

    I'm starting to feel like once a quarter i'll get a hairbrained scheme and just want to do it regardless of what people may think....i'm fairly certain most of the speaker designs i've done have been a little wack in some form or another...Todays entry is really no different.

    considering my speaker builds started by retro fitting a set of tower MTM speakers into a custom built TV cabinet and trying different woodworking techniques and progressing to kerfing and router work for everything, i accidentially stumbled on the expensive boenicke W5's. My desktop build using kerfing and the TEBM65 drivers was my intial attempt at getting something that looked like them, but didnt have anything side firing as the thought of a cross over intimidated me. The Phantom clone was the first build that had the side firing PR's and then the Passives Agressive crossed my path, which in a way sparked this latest wacky rabbit hole venture. I originally was going down the idea of the ND65, with a ND140PR on the side, in a similar enclosure sizing to the PA, but didnt like how they sounded when sitting close in the desktop environment, so looked at purchasing the PA's but almost needed to sell a kidney due to the crap aussie dollar and expensive shipping, so abandoned that. So went down to the garage to see what was available and noticed i purchased the Peerless 830985 full range woofers over a year ago for a project that didnt happen, which apparently has some good off axis response and a pair of the Visaton W130 x2 4ohm woofers.

    The idea is to have the 2.5 inch full ranges in a 0.012cuft sealed enclosure and the 5inch woofers in each, 0.07cuft. The FR's should have a F0 of 200hz, whilst the woofer would be around a F0 of 70hz and F3 or 60hz. The port will be designed into the body being a rectangle of 70x7mm, which is the same cross sectional area as the 25mm variant. This would need to be around 220mm long.

    I've basically used the first pass from DeZZar and tried tweaking it here and there in Vitriux which is my first attempt, not much had changed to be honest, but more adjusting values to match parts i can source locally. I may need to rethink a few things as based on some of the dimensions of the crossover components i might run out of usuable space considering the size of this build and the choice of woofer.

    This will either crash and burn harder than the hindenburg or actually work out, i dont really know.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    My thought process and current CAD design is to 3D print the body and the sides. The sides will have the driver mount, plus be receased so i can slide a 8-12mm piece of timber there to cover the speaker and also provide some different aesthetics with the PLA vs timber materials.

    I dont know how this will all turn out or if i'll even have room to fit most of the crossovers without sacrificing too much of the volume, but guess it cannot hurt to try.

    If it works out or somebody wants to have a go using this design, i'll gladly share my CAD for this. (noting that i use AutoCAD).
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Not to be a smarta**, why not add a little more volume to compensate for the crossover components?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by devnull View Post
        Not to be a smarta**, why not add a little more volume to compensate for the crossover components?
        I might, I just noticed one of the caps is basically 60mm x 60mm according to a webpage and then all the inductors. I'm restricted on the dimensions if I print on its side, I have a circular bed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Devnull has a good point since the enclosure is so small...

          If you made it a smidge deeper, you could print in a few attachment points for a matching crossover board with holes to zip tie/glue in the crossover bits.

          You know you're going to need some space for a few caps and inductors, might as well design for it at this point if since you're a 3-D printing expert!

          I like the design look by the way.

          TomZ
          Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
          *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
            Devnull has a good point since the enclosure is so small...

            If you made it a smidge deeper, you could print in a few attachment points for a matching crossover board with holes to zip tie/glue in the crossover bits.

            You know you're going to need some space for a few caps and inductors, might as well design for it at this point if since you're a 3-D printing expert!

            I like the design look by the way.

            TomZ
            Yeah Tom I don't actually know how big a crossover is yet as I've never done one before, but considering the size of my few BSCs with the iron cores I think I'm in for a shock ..

            I was thinking that I could use the 100v non polarized caps as these will be powered by a 12v amp and probably no more than 30-50w per channel (unless I can use my dta2 amp), I know they are a little bit smaller.

            I do like the idea of a custom board for the bits, maybe worked into the opposite side to the woofer. The overall width of this so far is about 120mm so maybe bump it out to 140 and get an extra 20mm internal, the more.volume and room for bits n pieces. It would be a wise move for me to hold fire on the printing until I actually get the parts, then I can see what I'm dealing with and adjust accordingly

            Guessing this was a similar issue for the passive aggressives being a small box and fitting the crossover and passives into that.

            Great responses guys, keep them coming.

            Comment


            • #7
              "Receased"? You mean 'Recessed'?
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

              Comment


              • 3rutu5
                3rutu5 commented
                Editing a comment
                Whoops, unless I'm planning to reanimate it

            • #8
              Nice!
              Perhaps it would be worth thickening up the baffle is the region of the HF driver?

              Comment


              • AEIOU
                AEIOU commented
                Editing a comment
                A thick front baffle has both merits and weaknesses. Thick is good for strength, thin is good for midrange reproduction. Ideally make a thick baffle that tapers to thin as it gets closer to the driver basket. Kind of like chamfering.

            • #9
              Originally posted by zx82net View Post
              Nice!
              Perhaps it would be worth thickening up the baffle is the region of the HF driver?
              Not a bad idea, was thinking of adding some points to mount some bolts or nuts to make fitting it easier, that would help by doing a bit of thickening

              Comment


              • #10
                Has anyone used the Peerless 830985 drivers or seen a project that had used them? i seem to be finding not much out there?

                Comment


                • #11
                  I have some Visaton W130S drivers, they sound very nice well into the midrange and even lower treble. You could cross them over much higher if you wanted. Might be interesting...

                  Comment


                  • 3rutu5
                    3rutu5 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I was thinking they would probably pair well with a tweeter, but then I'm going wider and will have issues sitting on my desk. Also was thinking using it with a TEBM35.or 65 but then I'm not sure how that would work...I think because I'm fixated on the side firing woofer I'm restricted to 200hz

                • #12
                  Those Peerless sound quite nice. I heard a project with those and a PR, and it was nice all by itself. I don't know if there was anything else in the cabs in form of contouring or filtering, but nice nonetheless.

                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    Those Peerless sound quite nice. I heard a project with those and a PR, and it was nice all by itself. I don't know if there was anything else in the cabs in form of contouring or filtering, but nice nonetheless.

                    Wolf
                    thats promising, i found a post on DIYaudio that slayed them and apart from some japanese folks on youtube i found next to nothing. They mentioned something about cone breakup on the high end and looking at the crossover above there is a pretty significant dip around 10-20k, not quite sure how to correct that or if i would even hear anything up that frequency.. I ran a sim yesterday as purely a learning excercise where i used the TEBM65 as the mid/high driver as i had Chris's FRD/ZMA from last year some time and i got a dip similar, but in the middle 1-2k mark, seemed interesting that i could remove components and it would really do nothing different. I'm sure this is a program like a lot of the civil engineering design packages i use where you put something in and it gives you a result......but unless you know what you are designing it may not be the correct result.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by Billet View Post
                      I have some Visaton W130S drivers, they sound very nice well into the midrange and even lower treble. You could cross them over much higher if you wanted. Might be interesting...
                      I've used only the visaton BF37s before and they worked really well in a compact build, i gave the W130x a test run in a small cardboard box which was flimsy and it sounded promising even though i didnt really push them. I find it amazing that a 5inch woofer can operate in these small enclosures, yes i could go a tangband sub or one of those Peerless ones but still in the model the W130X will hit a F3 of 44hz in a 0.14cuft box. I'm quite happy to get the F3 in the mid 50's, hence why im going half that.....too be honest where my computer is in the open plan lower level here, even though i'm 10m away from the lounge it is almost pointing towards the other tv (with a few walls in the way) so most likely im going to get told to turn it down haha. One of the other reasons i'm going the change as my PC speakers, that i really like are about a 400mm away of a 45deg angle from my ears to naturally they want to go right past me. This smaller build should give me a little more setback

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        FIRST FAILURE.....AutoCAD model a few MM's too big for the bed......sigh.....

                        FIX......scaled down to 97% to fit nicely, a few amendments to suit drivers and change of the enclosure for the peerless driver being a sphere not a random shape. with this i was actually surprised to see that the effeiciencies with some futher design looks to have increased the internal volume slightly for the W130X and components to 0.08cuft

                        Decided i would design a plug for the terminals at the back as well. One good outcome from the phantoms was designing the groove on both sides for the side walls to slot into. both sides can then be expoxied in. The 5inch hole on the side of each will be good for accessing the speaker later. Was thinking of hot gluing or some gorilla glue the sphere that holds the FR as from experience with the boozetooth speakers that its strong enough to hold it and with a little force/heat they can be removed. The front baffle that houses the FR has been thickened up as well and the entire face widened, hence the extra volume.

                        I've put on the print for the body and the sphere and will see how it goes in 2 days and 5 hours, chewing up 800grams of PLA. Lucky normal PLA is cheap at $25 a roll, i would assume that i use 2kgs by the end of this, maybe a little more so lets say 3 rolls as there will be some errors along the way. Fingers crossed the train of thought works for this one.

                        Attached Files

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