Inside Sonus Faber Olympica III Speakers

[Wolf]

Result of current flow through the coil.
Apparently it was here:
https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discus...#Comment_13321

Hey, Craig- you ever take those measurements?

Wolf

[LOUT]

Our own PWR RYD did an experiment, and the P-Cores saturate a lot sooner than thought. I have no problem with them in a narrow band series notch, but definitely NOT in a woofer Lowpass. I'll go Erse I-Core or SuperQ if doing cored coils.

When you (or anyone else) has the time, could you please link to that experiment, I'd like to read it.

I could never figure out if the "soak" was a result of total-system wattage or inductor-DCR wattage or a particular temperature...and I'm unsure what the soaking actually causes as far as audio quirks. I should be able to learn all kinds of things.

[Kornbread]

Not at all.

What often gets forgotten in terms of the costs to deliver a product for these companies is the fact that on top of the sum of the parts, they also have to cover:
- staff wages
- all sorts of insurances ranging from simply covering their own buildings/equipment through to workers compensation and professional indemnity
- cost of operating a factory or multiple factories
- cost of R&D (months and months or more potentially of creating prototypes and paying for staff/engineers to work on and test a design)
- cost of setting up forms and jigs and other tooling for each specific model.
- providing a warranty
- packaging and shipping materials
- cost of holding inventory
- development of manuals and brochures
- resourcing marketing (events, materials, sponsorships etc)
- cost of operating a dealer network (even if they don't own the retail front, they still need to create, maintain and staff the functions that support retail sales)

Most of these costs don't even register for DIY. So if you can get to nearly $14K by just counting some labor, tools and parts - imagine adding the rest and trying to turn a profit.

For a class project, I ran the numbers for a high end loudspeaker startup and yes, if you don't have to live high on the hog, there is considerable money to be made.

[DeZZar]

...and $14k doesn’t sound all that crazy if you put in a few hundred hours of labor.

Not at all.

What often gets forgotten in terms of the costs to deliver a product for these companies is the fact that on top of the sum of the parts, they also have to cover:
- staff wages
- all sorts of insurances ranging from simply covering their own buildings/equipment through to workers compensation and professional indemnity
- cost of operating a factory or multiple factories
- cost of R&D (months and months or more potentially of creating prototypes and paying for staff/engineers to work on and test a design)
- cost of setting up forms and jigs and other tooling for each specific model.
- providing a warranty
- packaging and shipping materials
- cost of holding inventory
- development of manuals and brochures
- resourcing marketing (events, materials, sponsorships etc)
- cost of operating a dealer network (even if they don't own the retail front, they still need to create, maintain and staff the functions that support retail sales)

Most of these costs don't even register for DIY. So if you can get to nearly $14K by just counting some labor, tools and parts - imagine adding the rest and trying to turn a profit.

[djg]

Salk sound charges $1700 for a pair of Continuums in veneer. I splurged on solid cherry baffles and backs and cherry veneer, and had Meniscus build the crossovers. I have 6-700 dollars invested in a pair visually identical to Harbeth BBC monitors. They look pretty good, if I do say so myself.

[billfitzmaurice]

I've never encountered a problem with them at even 500 watts, let alone less than that. Not my first rodeo.

[johnnyrichards]

Ferrite core are absolutely inferior to air or laminate core, it isn't audiophoolery - it is measurable science. They start saturating at very low levels, and go from there. Fine for a two watt build, but unlikely you will see them in any serious system where there is a chance someone will be pouring the coals on it.

[ugly woofer]

Every SF speaker that I've heard was at least very good, some exceptional. Value is different for everyone, but we as a diy crowd tend to be extremely cheap.

[billfitzmaurice]

You can spend a lot on DIY, but you don't have to. For instance, I wouldn't use Scan Speaks, or any of the other items you mentioned. Much of the reason for the existence of this forum lies in learning why spending big bucks seldom translates into audibly, let alone measurably, better results.

[mgrabow]

While I have been a DIY’er for years, I do find it interesting when a DIY’er uses the term “at that price…”

I sank $1500 into my last build and that was budget drivers and quality cover components where I could afford them.

if you were building a 3 way floor standers with 2 woofers per side and used all Scan Speak drivers you can easily get into $7k just in drivers. Have a local machine shop create the CAD file and cut you a pair of outriggers with spikes and your probably up another $1500. Buy some Cardas binding posts and a spook of solid silver wire and your up another grand. But a few tools you didn’t have to get it done and $14k doesn’t sound all that crazy if you put in a few hundred hours of labor.

I do agree at this price point no NPE caps and all air core inductors is a must.

[billfitzmaurice]

Assuming that air coils are inherently superior is audiophoolery. I agree that with larger Le values Erse are the way to go. As for hearing the difference with an NPE in a shunt, I always trust my ears, but verify with measurements.

[mgrabow]

The insides are curved.

[Wolf]

Why? Audiophool concerns aside there's nothing wrong with them, and they have far lower DCR than air core of the same wire gauge, which is a plus. As for the NPEs, they're acceptable when used as a shunt to ground in a low pass situation, so long as the higher ESR is taken into account.

Our own PWR RYD did an experiment, and the P-Cores saturate a lot sooner than thought. I have no problem with them in a narrow band series notch, but definitely NOT in a woofer Lowpass. I'll go Erse I-Core or SuperQ if doing cored coils.

There is a sonic difference between poly and NPE in the shunt, and many heard it back in 2010. Same thoughts in series notch for NPE applications or something inexpensive.

This is nothing to do with audiophoolery,
Wolf

[billfitzmaurice]

It's not all that obvious from those pictures how they're made. For the price it should be out of gold.

[Ray Tremblay]

Curved sides can make all the difference. Along with bracing they allow me to build pro-touring sound cabs with 1/4" and 1/8" plywood.

Look at all the photos Bill. While the exterior side panels are curved, the interior shots show that the actual driver enclosure is straight MDF. The outer panels could be purely cosmetic. Of course, the two layers could be sandwiched (and with an additional damping layer in the middle). Regardless, I have to assume that Sonus Faber has a good method of testing for cabinet resonance.