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  • #16
    another thing i just thought of, the DC-DC converters? I've seen people incorporating these into the input lines to remove static noise, and i think even on power lines after the buck converter to take the signal, filter it and output it as a clean version (well that was my take on it). I havent yet tried this so could be so far off the mark it isnt funny and i dont think i could find one at the time that had a 5v to 5v with 2A output

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    • #17
      So I'll try a high microfarad polarized cap if I can find one, and connect to the amp power in. It will be interesting to see if it helps or not.

      Thanks for the input.

      I'll let everyone know if it helps or not.

      Tom/Z
      Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
      *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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      • #18
        Well I don't have a single polarized cap in that value range, heck not even in any range. I was looking for some old electronic equipment to salvage one from possibly, but nope.
        If I want to play around with this idea, I'll have to order a few then.

        So I have suggestions of 50-100 microfarad and 2200 microfarad.

        PE has these polarized caps: 470 microfarad... 470uF 100V Radial Mini Electrolytic Capacitor (parts-express.com)
        and these 680 microfarad ones: 680uF 16V High Temp Radial Electrolytic Aluminum Capacitor (parts-express.com)
        They have a larger 100 microfarad unit but it's huge and $5 so...

        neither get close to the 2200 used in the setup shown by 3RUTU5.

        PE just doesn't have many polarized caps as they aren't used in crossovers.

        Edit: Just ordered an assortment of larger values to play with. 100, 1000, 2200, and 3300 microfarad. I'll test it out when they come in.

        TomZ
        Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
        *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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        • #19
          In a situation where a stiffening capacitor works, auto sound, the typical minimum size used is one farad. That's usually with high power amps, but still that's one farad, which is a million microfarads.
          www.billfitzmaurice.com
          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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          • #20
            Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
            Well I don't have a single polarized cap in that value range, heck not even in any range. I was looking for some old electronic equipment to salvage one from possibly, but nope.
            If I want to play around with this idea, I'll have to order a few then.

            So I have suggestions of 50-100 microfarad and 2200 microfarad.

            PE has these polarized caps: 470 microfarad... 470uF 100V Radial Mini Electrolytic Capacitor (parts-express.com)
            and these 680 microfarad ones: 680uF 16V High Temp Radial Electrolytic Aluminum Capacitor (parts-express.com)
            They have a larger 100 microfarad unit but it's huge and $5 so...

            neither get close to the 2200 used in the setup shown by 3RUTU5.

            PE just doesn't have many polarized caps as they aren't used in crossovers.

            Edit: Just ordered an assortment of larger values to play with. 100, 1000, 2200, and 3300 microfarad. I'll test it out when they come in.

            TomZ
            I went down to my local hobby electrical mob and picked it from a box. I also did something similar originally and tried to go janzten but the values didn't get higher enough.

            I did literally no research, just copied what was being discussed as I was using the same amp, booster, battery arrangement, so don't know the theory behind it.

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            • #21
              Tom, If your boost supply can only supply 450 mA, that means it can only supply 5 Watts of power, and that might even be a peak number. I'm guessing you can EASILY exceed that, and no reasonable amount of capacitance is going to allow you to make it through any kind of long, loud bass hit.

              Also, when you mention your battery-direct solution of "1300 mA", I'm assuming you mean they are 1300 mAh capacity. That is how much total energy the batteries hold, but they will likely supply several amps of current, especially in short-term bursts.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 1100xxben View Post
                Tom, If your boost supply can only supply 450 mA, that means it can only supply 5 Watts of power, and that might even be a peak number. I'm guessing you can EASILY exceed that, and no reasonable amount of capacitance is going to allow you to make it through any kind of long, loud bass hit.

                Also, when you mention your battery-direct solution of "1300 mA", I'm assuming you mean they are 1300 mAh capacity. That is how much total energy the batteries hold, but they will likely supply several amps of current, especially in short-term bursts.
                Good points Ben.

                I suspect your estimations are pretty close. My back of mind guess was similar. And yes I was speaking of the mAh capacity of the batteries I previously used.

                I'll experiment with the caps for the fun/education of it, but it very well may just have to be this way. It's fine, the output is loud and clean... just that last bit of volume is now "clicky" instead of slightly distorted, but at least my niece will know when to back it off a bit.

                My wife thought it was much more loud than our niece could play in in a NYC apartment without bugging her neighbors anyway..

                I'll report back with any results..

                TomZ
                Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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                • #23
                  Well that didn't go as expected.

                  I ordered several different caps in varying ranges to test this out.

                  Sort of.

                  I hooked the same battery charger/booster board to another of the same amp board on the bench and hooked it up to a set of Neo Nano speakers as well as trading off with one of the NN's for a subwoofer. I did this rather than take the whole shebang out of the tiny radio as it's not so easy for your fine, fat-fingered friend to do this. I figured a set of Neo Nano's and a 7" subwoofer would tax the setup more than a pair of DMA45's, especially since it was the bass hits where the issue showed up.

                  Sheesh, I had the entire room shaking with the bass at medium to nearly loud volume and it wasn't even breaking up until I got into the semi-loud territory. I was just shocked how much "Ooomph" this setup had running off of 2 18650's boosted to 12 volts.

                  I did 'test' out some of the caps with this setup. I went + to + and - to - on the amp voltage input. I ended up getting a 1 farad polarized cap that was rated at like 2 volts or so. That got DANG TOASTY pretty quick, I have multiples of those so I could add a few to bolster the low voltage rating if that ends up being a good value. I also used a 1000, 2200 uF and 3300 uF with higher voltage ratings if I'm not mistaken.

                  I had to get it cranking uncomfortably loud to get any breakup going on without the cap to see if adding any of them helped any. Honestly, I couldn't tell if any of them made any difference at all.

                  Guess I'll have to pull the guts out of that tiny little radio and do my experimenting that way.

                  I'm so surprised how loud this little setup got before 'crapping out' so to speak. I almost want to build a little box for this combo and hook it up to some of my 'big boy' speakers just to see what it could do with those.

                  Well, more testing to come tomorrow (probably) on the real thing.

                  TomZ
                  Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                  *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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                  • #24
                    Umm, Tom... You don't ever want to exceed the voltage rating of a capacitor! If you were putting the 12V output of your converter on a 2V supercap, I'm honestly surprised you didn't literally blow the thing up. When electrolytic capacitors get high voltage or reverse polarity... they typically are destroyed in grand fashion and will literally explode like a party popper. Jump to about 1:10 in this video, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dja1CrpJxXc. Honestly, a good electronics design will also de-rate the capacitors so that you will never exceed 70-80% of the rated voltage (I prefer 50-60% if physical/cost constraints allow). If you're using them on your boosted 12V rail, you should have at LEAST 15V rated capacitors, and I would personally look to use 25V rated caps. Depending on how well designed and stable your boost converter is, you may have small spikes that exceed 13-14V.

                    Putting capacitors in series can be a bit of a task too. Yes, you could put ten 2V caps in series to have a "20V" rating, but you divide the capacitance when doing that. For example, ten of your 1F caps in series will only yield 0.1 F of capacitance. The bigger issue though, is that the voltage will not be equally spread across the capacitors unless the ESR and capacities are matched perfectly, so the 20V rating isn't legitimate. You need to use resistors in parallel with the capacitors to balance the voltage. Just search for "series capacitor balancing resistors" for more information on that.

                    Another thing to keep in mind here is that adding massive amounts of capacitance to the output of your boost converter may cause instability. If you start reading through power supply spec sheets of well developed designs, they will specify a maximum amount of capacitance for the load. Also, a large capacitance load on a power supply may cause issues at start-up since you're essentially applying a short circuit in the short term.

                    But, I will reiterate... do not EVER exceed the voltage rating of a capacitor. It makes them VERY unhappy!

                    -Ben

                    P.S. Resistors dissipate power and create heat. As long as the circuit is designed properly, resistors getting hot can be normal. Capacitors should not be dissipating power (the reality is that there are losses in the ESR, but this should be minimal). If your capacitors are getting "DANG TOASTY", as you put, then something is very wrong (probably either exceeding the voltage rating or polarity is backwards).

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                    • #25
                      Thanks for the good info, Ben.

                      I admit, I didn't know what I was doing, I was just experimenting a bit, and flying by the seat of my pants. I wasn't aware that it could be dangerous.
                      Didn't get a chance to open up the radio and try some of my caps in action on the actual radio itself. I will be careful when doing so looking at voltage ratings as I go. Thanks for the warning.

                      TomZ
                      Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                      *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

                      Comment

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