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EPIQUE-E180HE-44 - New build help

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  • EPIQUE-E180HE-44 - New build help

    I am a newbie here would like to say Hello! to all.
    Just received this pair of 7 inch woofers which is DA's latest woofer. It looks awesome and I was planning to build a pair of stand mounted speakers for my living room (2-way). I was hoping to get the Fountek NeoX1.0 tweeter which has a recommended crossover at 2500Hz, 2nd order. I used the crossover calculator at https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Cal...akerCrossover/ which recommended around 4uf capacitors x 2 and inductors at 1mH wired in a 2nd order LR fashion.
    So far could I ask if the above is good enough ?
    The next stage is to design the enclosure. I quite liked the L-SLOT VENT BASS reflex enclosure and came across this design tool http://dbdynamixaudio.com/l-slot-ven...re-calculator/
    Are there any suggestions at this stage?
    I was also wondering about the volume taken up by the woofer and the tweeter - how does one calculate that and factor that in the speaker design
    Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.
    Abraham

  • #2
    Not good enough. Using the NeoX2 (for a quick sim) shows the tweeter level running about +16dB too hot (or so). An L-pad is the best way to bring that down.
    Also, w/out a "Zobel" on the woofer, your textbook filter still lets it run up to about 6kHz.

    About a 0.75cf box (tuned in the low 30s) should reach nearly 30Hz. Even though it's only a 7", its huge Xmax probably requires the equiv. of at least a 3"id (round) port area.

    Driver volume is not your main problem right now. A custom XO will be.

    This might get you pretty close (nearly full baffle-step).
    Ribbon HP 2nd order w/an L-pad: 4uF series cap, 0.70mH shunt coil (to gnd), L-pad SR/PRs = 8ohm series / 2ohm parallel (experiment w/driver polarity)
    2nd order on woofer w/Zobel-like thingy (to shape rolloff): 1.0mH series coil, 8uF shunt cap, RC shunt (to gnd) using 10ohms and 22uF.
    Crosses near 2.7k. Runs about 79dB.
    Last edited by Chris Roemer; 08-27-2021, 11:05 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Chris for your time and effort to advice. I don't have enough understanding of your detailed narrative and if possible would greatly help if I could visualise this in a schematic but that is too much of an ask I understand.
      Many many thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        LOUT in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 . . . (That guy is a machine on simulations) . . .



        Comment


        • LOUT
          LOUT commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol, thanks. For some reason this thread wasn't showing any of the newer posts for me in the forum though. It looks like that OP/cherian fellow is a really quick learner (or already experienced?)! Nice.
          EDIT: just realized it was in the other forum section, previously...my bad.

      • #5
        With the good quality drivers that you have, you really need to do them justice and have a crossover designed for a specific cabinet (including driver spacing and any rounded edges). I think quite a few people jumped on these new Epique drivers, you might want to wait until someone else does a design and copy theirs (which will almost surely use a different tweeter).

        WinISD is good free software for box modeling.

        For estimating the driver displacement, this will get you a good estimate https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Cal...rDisplacement/

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
          Not good enough. Using the NeoX2 (for a quick sim) shows the tweeter level running about +16dB too hot (or so). An L-pad is the best way to bring that down.
          Also, w/out a "Zobel" on the woofer, your textbook filter still lets it run up to about 6kHz.

          About a 0.75cf box (tuned in the low 30s) should reach nearly 30Hz. Even though it's only a 7", its huge Xmax probably requires the equiv. of at least a 3"id (round) port area.

          Driver volume is not your main problem right now. A custom XO will be.

          This might get you pretty close (nearly full baffle-step).
          Ribbon HP 2nd order w/an L-pad: 4uF series cap, 0.70mH shunt coil (to gnd), L-pad SR/PRs = 8ohm series / 2ohm parallel (experiment w/driver polarity)
          2nd order on woofer w/Zobel-like thingy (to shape rolloff): 1.0mH series coil, 8uF shunt cap, RC shunt (to gnd) using 10ohms and 22uF.
          Crosses near 2.7k. Runs about 79dB.
          Chris, I went ahead with your suggestions and not understanding most of it in the beginning but did a bit of googling to understand the lingo- I tried to do a schematic based on your specifications and here is what I came up with below
          The NeoX1.0 has a 92dB and NeoX2.0 has 94 dB so will any specifics change in the below XO ?

          Many thanks again and please correct me if I have misunderstood any of the details in the XO

          Abraham
          Click image for larger version

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          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #7
            Lookin' good.

            I actually dug up and traced the X1 before I simmed your XO.
            (If you were using the X2, I'd add a 6ohm resistor out in front of the tweeter's initial cap.)

            Zmin is 7ohms near 700Hz, so this is a (more than) solid 8n design which ANY amp should be happy pushing.

            Comment


            • #8
              Great. Thanks very much. I learnt a lot !

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                Lookin' good.

                I actually dug up and traced the X1 before I simmed your XO.
                (If you were using the X2, I'd add a 6ohm resistor out in front of the tweeter's initial cap.)

                Zmin is 7ohms near 700Hz, so this is a (more than) solid 8n design which ANY amp should be happy pushing.
                Finally Chris, do braces and acoustic foam padding make a real difference in the calculation for speaker box volume.
                Thanks to you, I learnt a lot about Zobel and L-Pad circuits.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post
                  With the good quality drivers that you have, you really need to do them justice and have a crossover designed for a specific cabinet (including driver spacing and any rounded edges). I think quite a few people jumped on these new Epique drivers, you might want to wait until someone else does a design and copy theirs (which will almost surely use a different tweeter).

                  WinISD is good free software for box modeling.

                  For estimating the driver displacement, this will get you a good estimate https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Cal...rDisplacement/
                  A different tweeter ? Did you have something in mind.?

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Vented boxes get lined w/"open cell" (a.k.a. convoluted or egg-carton) foam. No adjustments to volume are needed.
                    I'd only add volume (above 0.75cf) for the port.
                    You MIGHT be able to get by w/a 2" "Precision Port" (10" long) as they have HUGE flairs. (At only 0.02cf or so, I'd ignore it.)
                    A 2-1/2" tube would need a length of 16" (for the same tuning), adding about 0.06 cf.
                    A 3"id (PVC or cardboard) would have to be 2 FEET long (24"). THAT one would use up about 0.13 cu.ft. (NOT counting any elbows!).

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by cherian View Post

                      A different tweeter ? Did you have something in mind.?
                      No. My point was that people are currently creating designs with this woofer and if you build an experienced person's design you will probably have a better speaker. But I doubt anyone is using that tweeter so if you build someone else's design it would almost surely use a different tweeter.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post

                        No. My point was that people are currently creating designs with this woofer and if you build an experienced person's design you will probably have a better speaker. But I doubt anyone is using that tweeter so if you build someone else's design it would almost surely use a different tweeter.
                        Ok great.. I understand now . Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                          Vented boxes get lined w/"open cell" (a.k.a. convoluted or egg-carton) foam. No adjustments to volume are needed.
                          I'd only add volume (above 0.75cf) for the port.
                          You MIGHT be able to get by w/a 2" "Precision Port" (10" long) as they have HUGE flairs. (At only 0.02cf or so, I'd ignore it.)
                          A 2-1/2" tube would need a length of 16" (for the same tuning), adding about 0.06 cf.
                          A 3"id (PVC or cardboard) would have to be 2 FEET long (24"). THAT one would use up about 0.13 cu.ft. (NOT counting any elbows!).
                          Thanks again Chris

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            The other point to make, is that the Gallery is for FINISHED projects, so you won't get as much traffic/help here in this forum vs the TechTalk forum.
                            Wolf
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