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*Im sorry for the long post, questions at the end*
Hi all, I recently decided to try building a center channel speaker, after months of trying to score a DIYSG 1099 without any luck. I took a few online courses in speaker building and have been reading a lot. If this turns out to be a total disaster, I figured I can always sell the drivers and at least I kept myself out of trouble. Currently I have an 88-Special as a center and I don't like the form factor. My L and R's are DIYSG Cinema 10's with 2 Eminence Delta 10b's and a SEOS 10 waveguide - IDK what CD is in it. So I set out to build a 2 way MTM and bought 2 Emi Delta 10b's and a BC DE250 compression driver (since it's similar to what's in the 88 Special).
The first waveguide I tried was the Faital Pro LTH102, because it could be crossed down low and I liked the narrower dispersion pattern (I have a smallish room and thought less room interaction would be better). However I just couldn't get into it. It was just too directional, even though I only have a 3 seat couch where I was listening. So next I tried the Faital Pro STH100 and the B&C ME20. The 100, ME20 and the SEOS10 all measured pretty similarly on the tests I did. I liked the sound of the STH100 over the ME20, but just barely. But, I do like the price of the ME20 and the fact that it comes with a gasket!
I built a ~2.5ft3 test box with a front baffle that measured 12"x42". I was aiming for a tune of 66hz, but near field port measurements and DATSv3 is saying It's actually around 63hz. I'll have to raise that for the next box I build. I've built a few baffles, and have changed out a lot of speakers and waveguides, this is a lot of work!!! I have tons of appreciation for the people who design the DIY kits for all of us to build.
I used a miniDSP to find driver time alignment and set the crossovers. I ended up using the new speaker in this config for a week or so as a center channel. It's hard to compare between different horns, or my old 88 special, because everything takes so long to change and I forget how the last set up sounded (except for in cases like the LTH102 which definitely sounded different). Another issue I run into is my old set up has all the Audyssey settings and in room eq set. So that has been a challenge...
Anyways, my mind kept saying what if... and I decided to try some mid drivers to put under the STH100 to help off axis response in the XO range. I settled on a pair of sealed 6" Eminence drivers (LA6-CBMR 6-1/2") This made things a lot more complicated, and I still don't know if I am going to keep them or go back to the 2 way. Im already concerned with building a 2 way crossover, let alone a 3 way! The 6" drivers are kind of big. So I had to push the 10" drivers further way and I start to get a pretty big null at around 600hz at 25 degrees off axis. On the baffle with just the STH100 and the 2 10's, the null was closer to 1000hz. SO it almost seems like a toss up. On the 2 way I could cross at 1k and keep a decent 50 degree window, OR go with a more complicated 3 way and still have about a 50 degree window since the drivers are now further spaced out. The STH100 says it should be crossed around 1.5k so it should be happier in the 3 way, but I didn't notice anything weird when I had it crossed at 1k and I doubt I will be playing it loud enough for it to matter. But I don't know, this is all new to me!
So this is where I am at now, and was hoping to get some feedback and/or suggestions.
I've done measurements in REW to make frd files and I've made zma files with the DATS.
These are the gated measurements of the 2 10's in parallel, 2 6's in parallel, and the DE250, at 1 meter, at 2.83vdc into an 8ohm load, tested with a 60hz sine wave. I also measured all the drivers in parallel without touching anything to find phase alignment. This speaker is really really heavy so I was only able to get it about 5' off the ground, but it was on end, so the high end was about 9' up and I tested out in my backyard so the impulse response window looked pretty clean.
I also took near field measurements of one 10" driver and one port. However I haven't merged any of this with the 10" far field measurements because Im not quite sure how to do this with dual woofers and dual ports. I also haven't done any baffle step compensation to the measurements because the speaker will end up sitting flush with two subwoofers and a cabinet below. It will also be up against a wall and the speaker is only 13" deep. So Im not sure how to go about these two calculations, or if it's needed since Im building it for me and a specific location.
These are 25 degree horizontal off axis measurements I took to see what was going on and to help with crossover points.
I also looked a distortion for the crossover points. The 10's basically have no distortion until the go below 100hz. The 6's look like they're good to 500 and start to spike up around 2k.. but still super low.
The DE250 had 2-3% over it's whole range, which I thought seemed weird... Idk if this looks normal to you guys, but its very flat but starts to go up below 1k.
Sorry again for the long post. I have to decide now if I want to keep the 3 way, or go back to 2 way. What to do about baffle step and near field measurements, if needed. And start working on a crossover. Vituix seems amazing with the baffle simulator and auto optimizer, etc, but its really unintuitive and complicated. XSim has been way easier for me to play around in. Right now in my completely unqualified and unexperienced opinion it seems like a good XO points to start would be 500-600 and 1.7-2k.
Hi all, I recently decided to try building a center channel speaker, after months of trying to score a DIYSG 1099 without any luck. I took a few online courses in speaker building and have been reading a lot. If this turns out to be a total disaster, I figured I can always sell the drivers and at least I kept myself out of trouble. Currently I have an 88-Special as a center and I don't like the form factor. My L and R's are DIYSG Cinema 10's with 2 Eminence Delta 10b's and a SEOS 10 waveguide - IDK what CD is in it. So I set out to build a 2 way MTM and bought 2 Emi Delta 10b's and a BC DE250 compression driver (since it's similar to what's in the 88 Special).
The first waveguide I tried was the Faital Pro LTH102, because it could be crossed down low and I liked the narrower dispersion pattern (I have a smallish room and thought less room interaction would be better). However I just couldn't get into it. It was just too directional, even though I only have a 3 seat couch where I was listening. So next I tried the Faital Pro STH100 and the B&C ME20. The 100, ME20 and the SEOS10 all measured pretty similarly on the tests I did. I liked the sound of the STH100 over the ME20, but just barely. But, I do like the price of the ME20 and the fact that it comes with a gasket!
I built a ~2.5ft3 test box with a front baffle that measured 12"x42". I was aiming for a tune of 66hz, but near field port measurements and DATSv3 is saying It's actually around 63hz. I'll have to raise that for the next box I build. I've built a few baffles, and have changed out a lot of speakers and waveguides, this is a lot of work!!! I have tons of appreciation for the people who design the DIY kits for all of us to build.
I used a miniDSP to find driver time alignment and set the crossovers. I ended up using the new speaker in this config for a week or so as a center channel. It's hard to compare between different horns, or my old 88 special, because everything takes so long to change and I forget how the last set up sounded (except for in cases like the LTH102 which definitely sounded different). Another issue I run into is my old set up has all the Audyssey settings and in room eq set. So that has been a challenge...
Anyways, my mind kept saying what if... and I decided to try some mid drivers to put under the STH100 to help off axis response in the XO range. I settled on a pair of sealed 6" Eminence drivers (LA6-CBMR 6-1/2") This made things a lot more complicated, and I still don't know if I am going to keep them or go back to the 2 way. Im already concerned with building a 2 way crossover, let alone a 3 way! The 6" drivers are kind of big. So I had to push the 10" drivers further way and I start to get a pretty big null at around 600hz at 25 degrees off axis. On the baffle with just the STH100 and the 2 10's, the null was closer to 1000hz. SO it almost seems like a toss up. On the 2 way I could cross at 1k and keep a decent 50 degree window, OR go with a more complicated 3 way and still have about a 50 degree window since the drivers are now further spaced out. The STH100 says it should be crossed around 1.5k so it should be happier in the 3 way, but I didn't notice anything weird when I had it crossed at 1k and I doubt I will be playing it loud enough for it to matter. But I don't know, this is all new to me!
So this is where I am at now, and was hoping to get some feedback and/or suggestions.
I've done measurements in REW to make frd files and I've made zma files with the DATS.
These are the gated measurements of the 2 10's in parallel, 2 6's in parallel, and the DE250, at 1 meter, at 2.83vdc into an 8ohm load, tested with a 60hz sine wave. I also measured all the drivers in parallel without touching anything to find phase alignment. This speaker is really really heavy so I was only able to get it about 5' off the ground, but it was on end, so the high end was about 9' up and I tested out in my backyard so the impulse response window looked pretty clean.
I also took near field measurements of one 10" driver and one port. However I haven't merged any of this with the 10" far field measurements because Im not quite sure how to do this with dual woofers and dual ports. I also haven't done any baffle step compensation to the measurements because the speaker will end up sitting flush with two subwoofers and a cabinet below. It will also be up against a wall and the speaker is only 13" deep. So Im not sure how to go about these two calculations, or if it's needed since Im building it for me and a specific location.
These are 25 degree horizontal off axis measurements I took to see what was going on and to help with crossover points.
I also looked a distortion for the crossover points. The 10's basically have no distortion until the go below 100hz. The 6's look like they're good to 500 and start to spike up around 2k.. but still super low.
The DE250 had 2-3% over it's whole range, which I thought seemed weird... Idk if this looks normal to you guys, but its very flat but starts to go up below 1k.
Sorry again for the long post. I have to decide now if I want to keep the 3 way, or go back to 2 way. What to do about baffle step and near field measurements, if needed. And start working on a crossover. Vituix seems amazing with the baffle simulator and auto optimizer, etc, but its really unintuitive and complicated. XSim has been way easier for me to play around in. Right now in my completely unqualified and unexperienced opinion it seems like a good XO points to start would be 500-600 and 1.7-2k.
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