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Boombox idee with Dayton Epique e150

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  • Boombox idee with Dayton Epique e150

    i had an idee for a boombox with the Epique E150 and made some sketches for it. maybe someone have some tips or info about my tweeter choice or amplifier choice. i choose an 1000 watt amp to keep distortion as low as possible. it had 10% distortion at 1000 watt, 1% distortion at 632 watt so i hope at 250 watt it is somewhere at 0,1 % distortion.

    for the tweeters i use an 2 x 50 amp. i need about 10 watt because of higher sensivity and baffle step and at 10 watt @4ohm the amp have 0,073% distortion so i hope with 8 ohm it is somewhere at 0,1% distortion.

    i want to use DSP with the dayton dspb-ke to get a 2.1 configuration and use the acrylic bluetooth/wifi receiver for the streaming, wich have 0,03% distortion.

    the Epique reach an Xmax about 12 mm at 250 watt RMS and the 3 passives about 13 mm.

    the tweeters are shielded and have a low built in dept but i don't know if those are the right choice for a "premium" woofer like this, i hope someone have some tips where to look at...

    the battery is an 12S2P lithium configuration and should provide about 300 watt, so around 6 hours playtime at max volume..



    this is just a sketch and i aim for high quality audio so i hope someone have some tips or suggestions for me..



    EDIT: i want to use 2 drivers and 1 tweeter so i gonna use a 750 watt RMS x2 amplifier now with a 18S2P battery and the tweeter is replaced by a peerless corundum 1 inch tweeter ( 0.7mm Xmax )
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Scarface1; 12-06-2021, 11:21 AM.

  • #2
    Scarface,

    that looks really ambitious! As I'm looking at it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to use a dedicated full-range for the L and R sides, possibly with a tiny helper tweeter like the 5/8" that Dayton has or the 1/2" pair the Tang Band sells. I'm just not sure how it would sound with just one subwoofer/driver doing the majority of the heavy lifting and just having stereo tweeters. It sounds like you are looking for high quality sound and you're putting in some really nice components to get there.

    Some will say it's a waste to use such a big amp and that driver as it's very inefficient, but I don't have an issue with that... it's a cool idea and will be a centerpiece design so why not, if you like it? Have you modeled the PR's with the driver to be sure it will work together okay? I know a few have used those 'overseas' flat passives, but I'd want to do a test box first to make sure it will do what you want it to before committing to a full build, just trying to help avoid possible issues... and I know ALL about issues with smaller radios and boom box things.

    Hopefully other, smarter folks will be able to give you some real help with this.

    TomZ

    Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

    Comment


    • #3
      I would suggest this coax driver used in Bobinga's little design. Excellent sound, simple four element XO. Sealed box fairly small.

      https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...-8-Ohm-295-384

      https://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...0-8-easy-build

      Comment


      • #4
        I know you have the new Dayton sub on your mind, but your project would be much lighter with this sub. Don't know if you plan to carry it around.

        https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-B...woofer-264-831

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
          Scarface,

          that looks really ambitious! As I'm looking at it, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to use a dedicated full-range for the L and R sides, possibly with a tiny helper tweeter like the 5/8" that Dayton has or the 1/2" pair the Tang Band sells. I'm just not sure how it would sound with just one subwoofer/driver doing the majority of the heavy lifting and just having stereo tweeters. It sounds like you are looking for high quality sound and you're putting in some really nice components to get there.

          Some will say it's a waste to use such a big amp and that driver as it's very inefficient, but I don't have an issue with that... it's a cool idea and will be a centerpiece design so why not, if you like it? Have you modeled the PR's with the driver to be sure it will work together okay? I know a few have used those 'overseas' flat passives, but I'd want to do a test box first to make sure it will do what you want it to before committing to a full build, just trying to help avoid possible issues... and I know ALL about issues with smaller radios and boom box things.

          Hopefully other, smarter folks will be able to give you some real help with this.

          TomZ
          Thanks Tom, can you explain why it will sound bad with those 2 tweeters... what about 2 woofers and 1 tweeter like the peerless corundum 1 inch , like an MTM. I read some stuff already about different designs etc but it's a bit overwhelming. I already ordered a book to help me with the difficult stuff.

          For now it is just an idee of mine because i see so much speakers on youtube wich go loud but are extremely priced. So with these speakers ( E150 ) it seems to me that something familiair can be build but even smaller AND A LOT cheaper because of the DIY part and probably sounding better if done correctly..

          In the past i build some things wich not turned out well because i already bought stuff and there was always a thing wich did not go how i wanted it to be. So i only gonna build this if i know for sure it will be good and everything fits. I just kept this project in mind until i know it is not a waist of my money


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by djg View Post
            I know you have the new Dayton sub on your mind, but your project would be much lighter with this sub. Don't know if you plan to carry it around.

            https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-B...woofer-264-831
            Thanks for the idee but the tangband only handle around 50 watts while the E150 can handle 200 watts, have more xmax and only lost 10% BL at 12 mm Xmax! The idee is to make an as small as possible speaker wich go loud and doing it clean. It is just an idee and would be fun to compete with bigger speakers on the market. There is the Soundboks 3 for 900$ , wich is 90 liters and even less loud as an 30 liter MTM design with the dayton E150! Just dreaming but it would be epic !!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Scarface1 View Post

              Thanks Tom, can you explain why it will sound bad with those 2 tweeters... what about 2 woofers and 1 tweeter like the peerless corundum 1 inch , like an MTM. I read some stuff already about different designs etc but it's a bit overwhelming. I already ordered a book to help me with the difficult stuff.

              For now it is just an idee of mine because i see so much speakers on youtube wich go loud but are extremely priced. So with these speakers ( E150 ) it seems to me that something familiair can be build but even smaller AND A LOT cheaper because of the DIY part and probably sounding better if done correctly..

              In the past i build some things wich not turned out well because i already bought stuff and there was always a thing wich did not go how i wanted it to be. So i only gonna build this if i know for sure it will be good and everything fits. I just kept this project in mind until i know it is not a waist of my money

              Well, The Epique driver is really a subwoofer. It has two voice coils so you could technically use one coil for right and the other for left, but you won't have any stereo separation that way, and I think the cross to the tweeters won't sound nearly as good as you're hoping it will. The idea that djg had is pretty sound. Small compartment for the L and R and then you could go with the Epique as a dedicated .1 subwoofer. Each driver would be doing what it likes to do comfortably. The added benefit is that you can just use the crossover that someone else has already done for them and also each L and R driver only needs one cutout as they are coax (tweeter in woofer) speakers. A setup like that for instance may end up sounding pretty good.

              I hear you, some of the retail speakers are pretty pricey, I think us DIY'ers could do much better for less $$$ as well. If you go with a proven design that others have built and like, you are pretty much assured of some level of success, so that takes some of the guesswork out of it as well.

              TomZ

              Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

              Comment


              • #8
                Nate (SilverD) is using this sub crossed to Seas DXT tweeters. He is using electronic XO. Of course these are monitors but he is getting good results.

                https://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...ctive-monitors

                Comment


                • #9
                  If I were to make a 2.1 boombox, I would make the 3 pieces detachable to give greater stereo separation when the situation called for it.

                  https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=3+p...ages&ia=images

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by djg View Post
                    If I were to make a 2.1 boombox, I would make the 3 pieces detachable to give greater stereo separation when the situation called for it.

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=3+p...ages&ia=images
                    I loved the Cambridge Soundworks suitcase idea. The case was the sub and served as the travel storage for the amp and 2 satellites to put in the room. I think that was a late 80's early 90's product, always thought it would be cool to replicate.

                    Edit: had to find it... called the Model 11 in the 90's.

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                    Wogg Music
                    Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by djg View Post
                      Nate (SilverD) is using this sub crossed to Seas DXT tweeters. He is using electronic XO. Of course these are monitors but he is getting good results.

                      https://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...ctive-monitors
                      So a 2 way is possible? Dayton claims it can be used as a 2 way up to 4000 hz. My tought was to low pass it at 3000 hz with a very steep cross over to avoid out of phase behaviors, i read with an mtm design this happen most of the time because of different on and off axis response of the drivers. The tweeter i want to use is the peerless 1 inch corundum and can get the job done at half of it's xmax!

                      the detached stereo Chambers are a nice idee but make it less doable and probably bigger, beside that .. the wifi module have a stereo connection in it, so if i make 2 of it i can wireless connect them for stereo ( this would be expensive but can be done with a smaller and cheaper speaker ) but i like the idee, i tought about it earlier.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A few tips/comments/suggestions on the electrical side of things:

                        With the coils of your woofer wired in series, you'll have an 8 ohm speaker. With a 12S battery, that will yield a range from ~40 V to ~50 V (fully depleted to fully charged). That will yield a maximum of 100 to 150W into the woofer where you hit about 10% THD (at the onset of clipping). Now, assuming the amplifier is 2 ohm stable, you can wire the coils in parallel and you'll be able to drive as much power as that woofer can handle.

                        Your TPA3116 amplifier for your tweeters is only rated for up to a 26V input voltage. As discussed above, your battery voltage will range from ~40-50V which will surely let the magic smoke out of that amplifier in a hurry. If you were to change things around and go with 6S, you could use it to power both amplifiers safely, but then you'll be limited again to 100-150W of output power to the woofer if wired in parallel (at 10% THD).

                        You didn't mention anything about how you'd power things like the DSP and Arylic boards. They will only require 5V to run, but going back to your 12S battery, knocking 50V down to 5V is not trivial. A linear regulator will likely get very hot, and will waste a significant amount of power, which is key when building a battery powered device. A switching regulator could be used, but you'll want to make sure you get a quality one so you're not injecting noise into the system.

                        Hope that helps
                        -Ben

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1100xxben View Post
                          A few tips/comments/suggestions on the electrical side of things:

                          With the coils of your woofer wired in series, you'll have an 8 ohm speaker. With a 12S battery, that will yield a range from ~40 V to ~50 V (fully depleted to fully charged). That will yield a maximum of 100 to 150W into the woofer where you hit about 10% THD (at the onset of clipping). Now, assuming the amplifier is 2 ohm stable, you can wire the coils in parallel and you'll be able to drive as much power as that woofer can handle.

                          Your TPA3116 amplifier for your tweeters is only rated for up to a 26V input voltage. As discussed above, your battery voltage will range from ~40-50V which will surely let the magic smoke out of that amplifier in a hurry. If you were to change things around and go with 6S, you could use it to power both amplifiers safely, but then you'll be limited again to 100-150W of output power to the woofer if wired in parallel (at 10% THD).

                          You didn't mention anything about how you'd power things like the DSP and Arylic boards. They will only require 5V to run, but going back to your 12S battery, knocking 50V down to 5V is not trivial. A linear regulator will likely get very hot, and will waste a significant amount of power, which is key when building a battery powered device. A switching regulator could be used, but you'll want to make sure you get a quality one so you're not injecting noise into the system.

                          Hope that helps
                          -Ben
                          Thanks for your input Ben, i was planning to use a 18S2P lithium battery pack so when fully charged it's almost 80V. I found this step down converter. Also maybe i need a groundloop or more of them because it all use the same power source?!
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In your first post, you mentioned 12S, now you're saying 18S... There's no reason to use more cells in series than necessary for your highest voltage item. None of your amplifier boards can take that much voltage, and every voltage conversion step you put in the power chain is wasted power. You can estimate you're going to throw away at LEAST 10-20% of your battery capacity in every voltage conversion step.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for your input Ben. I Forgot to mention that i'm gonna use a 750 watt RMS x2 amplifier instead of a 1 x 1000 watt RMS because i wanna use 2 drivers( the enclosure would be 1.5x the original size). The amplifier datasheet recommend 72V for the i guess optimal distortion output, so thats why i use a 18S2P battery.

                              If the step down converters don't add any noise, i think it's a simple solution because i gonna use maybe 10 watt MAX for all the modules and tweeter amp, so that will be a 4 watt loss at 70% efficiency of the step down converter. On MAX volume the speaker use about 75 Watt so i don't think 4 or 5 watt extra is that much of a problem. I could be wrong but thats how i tought about it... would be happy to hear your tought about this because i'm not an electrician!!

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