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  • Cross over design help.

    I was messing around with the library as i wasnt sure what to do, put in a couple of second order high and low pass filters, but think something is wrong in my tracing abilities as the upper end just looks too high.

    so knowing that i have never designed a x over before and the last one i got close to doing i had a heap of help** (done by DeZZar really) and i dont really understand, but i parked that project for now.

    This one i thought would be straight forward considering its just a woofer and tweeter and not sure if maybe the woofer just has a low sensitivity\output hence it looking under 80db's.

    MID WOOFER VISATON W130 2X4
    TWEETER VISATON SC5

    I'd be very grateful on assistance, advice or if somebody does a rough pass for me to work on, as currently im lost


    Attached Files

  • #2
    It's a small tweeter that favours the higher frequencies and likely won't appreciate the crossover point needed to match up with this woofer.

    There is a 12db difference in sensitivity as well which is largely the fault of the extremely low sensitivity of the woofer.

    ​​​​​​I just don't think this is a workable match up.

    Comment


    • 3rutu5
      3rutu5 commented
      Editing a comment
      Got a.tweeter recommendation? Nd16/20.maybe?

  • #3
    I just tried another tweeter, the dx20b400-004 from peerless and i think that looked a bit nicer. Still needs refinement.

    From the sounds of it, im trying to pair a difficult woofer. I would have considered getting something else, but i just have a pair of them and dont feel like spending more. Plus they can operate in a small enclosure for a 5 inch.
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #4
      You need to pad down the top end, that 15dB rise from 3khz will hurt your ears, very shrill. Not sure what your tweeter budget is but have a look at the SB26ADC or SB29RDC these can cross over at just under 2khz, maybe a bit lower. One of the things to look for is to reverse the polarity of the tweeter and see if you get a 30dB+ v shaped dip, this shows good phase alignment assuming the frequency response if fairly flat.

      Comment


      • #5
        Based on your attached files, this is about the best I could come up with quickly for this combination. However the big caveat here is that I don't think the tweeter will like crossing this low. Its recommended for 4K and above which just wont work with this woofer at all. Assumes around 25mm offset for tweeter voice coil vs woofer. Sensitivity is incredibly low.

        If you have these drivers laying around and just want to use them up, no harm in trying this I guess and see how the tweeter goes.

        Click image for larger version

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        Comment


        • #6
          The W130X is a subwoofer and will be more difficult to match up with a tweeter. The W130S bass/midrange driver would cross over much nicer to the SC5. A small full range driver such as the FRS5 might be a much simpler high frequency driver for the W130X.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by DeZZar View Post
            Based on your attached files, this is about the best I could come up with quickly for this combination. However the big caveat here is that I don't think the tweeter will like crossing this low. Its recommended for 4K and above which just wont work with this woofer at all. Assumes around 25mm offset for tweeter voice coil vs woofer. Sensitivity is incredibly low.

            If you have these drivers laying around and just want to use them up, no harm in trying this I guess and see how the tweeter goes.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	VituixCAD XO-schema-1.png
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ID:	1479531 Click image for larger version

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ID:	1479530
            I dont have the tweeters, just the woofers from that other build i was considering with the fast x over. Maybe i need to look around for a better set of components for the build.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Billet View Post
              The W130X is a subwoofer and will be more difficult to match up with a tweeter. The W130S bass/midrange driver would cross over much nicer to the SC5. A small full range driver such as the FRS5 might be a much simpler high frequency driver for the W130X.
              oh i thought it was a mid woofer with ranges going up to 6000hz.... From memory i have a couple of 1.5 and 2 inch drivers lying around. Visaton BF37 and TEBM35, which might fit in the top area.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Billet View Post
                The W130X is a subwoofer and will be more difficult to match up with a tweeter. The W130S bass/midrange driver would cross over much nicer to the SC5. A small full range driver such as the FRS5 might be a much simpler high frequency driver for the W130X.
                Noticed this is a kit by others, which has a simple x over. not sure how it models, but interesting none the less.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #10
                  Looking at the above design, it usese a ferrite core inductor, which im finding difficulty finding, what would be interchangable with a FC Inductor?

                  Comment


                  • Billet
                    Billet commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I think an iron core or laminated iron core would be fine.

                • #11
                  Originally posted by 3rutu5 View Post

                  Noticed this is a kit by others, which has a simple x over. not sure how it models, but interesting none the less.
                  The way the woofer is drawn seems to indicate two woofers per channel and it sort if looks like they might be mounted isobarically. Otherwise I think they would have been drawn as two separate woofers just wired in series.
                  Craig

                  I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

                  Comment


                  • Billet
                    Billet commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It is a dual voice coil woofer, 2x4 ohms, the sketch shows them wired in series. It is confusing at first because the jumpers look like a cone.

                • #12
                  Originally posted by 3rutu5 View Post
                  looking at the above design, it usese a ferrite core inductor, which im finding difficulty finding, what would be interchangable with a fc inductor?
                  pe 257-566
                  Craig

                  I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post

                    The way the woofer is drawn seems to indicate two woofers per channel and it sort if looks like they might be mounted isobarically. Otherwise I think they would have been drawn as two separate woofers just wired in series.
                    This particular woofer is a little different to most
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post

                      pe 257-566
                      Cool, iron core is easy to source

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        It looks like you did a fine job tracing the files, but ...
                        pretty sure the F/Z files you posted are for the SC5 tweeter (8ohm), BUT - looks like you actually traced the 130"S" woofer.
                        If you'd have traced the 130X, you'd see an 8ohm impedance (Visaton's Z-plot is for the 2-4ohm coils in series), not the 4ohm plot you show.
                        Also (apparently) the DVC "sub" has a bit flatter response - which you don't show.

                        The XO you referenced (a few posts above) is known as a "series crossover" (as opposed to what 99% of designs use, a "parallel" crossover).
                        (IMO the series type are a LOT harder to "adjust to taste" (by ear) than the parallel type due to the interaction of the components.)

                        Simming that "series" (FAST) XO using the Visaton FR58-4 and the DVC W130X doesn't look all that bad (+/-3-4dB or so), but if you use the SC5 tweeter and the woofer files you traced (W130S - pretty sure) it looks absolutely horrible.
                        Last edited by Chris Roemer; 12-04-2021, 03:12 PM.

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