Building Biamp (Biwire) Speakers

[zinger084]

Hello All,

I searched a few different ways and I could not find the answer I was looking for.

My Yahama RX-A2A is able to biamp the front set of speakers:
https://manual.yamaha.com/av/20/rxa2...812609419.html

I am used to building 2-ways with a single set of conductors running to posts/2-way prebuilt xover, and out to tweeters.

I'm deep in the rabbit hole looking into building my own separate xovers, zobels, l-pads, etc, but I want to know the following... do I simply bring one set of conductors to cabinet low pass and the other set of conductors to the cabinet high pass, or are they meant to be bridged internally? I'm just not following this part and it's driving me nuts (probably why it's 1:32am and i'm posting this).

Thanks all!!!

[Blenton]

Two sets of wires - one for the tweeter, one for the woofer. You basically just split the the two parts of the crossover and separate the tweeter portion from woofer portion as if they are two separate speakers. If the tweeter is padded down, make sure to leave the resistors on that circuit. No need to do anything special on the receiver other than set it Biamp in the settings menu.

Edit: It should be obvious, but biamping requires that you use two amplifier outputs for each speaker; one amplifier out for the tweeter, one for the woofer. The receiver will tell you which outputs to use.

BTW, I’m sure somebody will chime in and tell you it’s wasted effort/time/resources/life/oxygen/dragons blood/whatever to biamp. Someone else will chime in and try to set you straight on the differences between biamping and biwiring. Ignore it. Try out biamping and see what happens.

[billfitzmaurice]

Bi-amping has its advantages, mainly in pro-sound applications, where high order active crossovers allow high frequency drivers to operate with a better level of protection. If your receiver has the ability to bi-amp there's no reason not to use it., so long as you don't mind losing the surround channels.

Bi-wiring doesn't do anything from an engineering standpoint, only from a marketing standpoint.

[Paul O]

In general true bi-amping uses line level processing ahead of the amplifiers instead of passive components after them, otherwise this is just bi-wiring which is a total waste of time. Does that Yamaha have crossover/eq/time alignment processing available for the bi-amp setup? If so by all means give it a go.

[djg]

You dissect the typical XO diagram into the separate tweeter and woofer circuits. Scott Sehlin's Rhodium XO as an example. On the left in the schematic, the two circuits are joined at the amp+ connection. You separate them and connect them to a biamp terminal cup, for example. Separate plus and minus for both. The biamp terminal cup shown has bus bars to connect the two separate circuits IF you DON'T want to biamp.



https://www.parts-express.com/Gold-P...rminal-260-304

[djg]

In your case you might wring a few more watts out of your amp. A few.

[djg]

Here's an active two way monitor by forum member SilverD. There is no passive XO. the sound is processed outboard and sent directly to each driver from 4 channels of amplification.

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...ctive-monitors

[rpb]

Blenton answered the wiring question. If I had this amp, I'd do it for sure on a new DIY design. There are some useful tricks you can do while working on a x-over. For example, it's very easy to reverse polarity on a driver, or measure individual drivers with a finished x-over.

What would be really nice, is if you can adjust the two levels independently. Then you could eliminate the resistors and pick up a few dB of headroom. This could be really interesting with a high sensitivity tweeter. I think I saw that there are pre outs as well. This opens up even more options.

[zinger084]

Thank you all for the responses... very helpful!

As a follow up, if i'm going to build a set of two ways, can I cut the woofer with a 12db slope at say 1500 and pickup the tweeter at a slope at say 2500 (or do they have to be the same cutover (2,000?)

I ask because the 10" driver i'm using is a little peaky at 2k, so i wanted to cut that some, as is the tweeter i'm using, which is a little peaky at 2k. I was going to try and cut a few db down at what i would consider the crossover frequency, but the best info i can find is to use an LR alignment for a flat response (i actually want a dip on both drivers a little... i thought his was a bessell... and maybe that's a different subject altogether...

[Chris Roemer]

You really can't design a crossover w/out using .frd (freq. response) and .zma (impedance) data files in a simulation program.
Most here would not run a 10" up to 1.5k, or even try using it in a 2-way (not using a dome tweeter, anyway).
Care to share your drivers?

[billfitzmaurice]

. i thought his was a bessell... and maybe that's a different subject altogether...

It is, as you would not use a passive crossover when bi-amping.

[Billet]

As a follow up, if i'm going to build a set of two ways, can I cut the woofer with a 12db slope at say 1500 and pickup the tweeter at a slope at say 2500 (or do they have to be the same cutover (2,000?) I ask because the 10" driver i'm using is a little peaky at 2k, so i wanted to cut that some, as is the tweeter i'm using, which is a little peaky at 2k.

In many cases you actually would not want the same electrical crossover point for both drivers. What you are referring to is referred to as the acoustical crossover frequency and it takes into account the natural slopes and efficiency differences between the drivers at the crossover point.

[zinger084]

Dayton Audio DS270-8 10" Designer Series Woofer Speaker
and
Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter

What software should I look into buying?

[rpb]

Dayton Audio DS270-8 10" Designer Series Woofer Speaker
and
Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter

What software should I look into buying?

A x-over can sometimes be an elaborate electrical filter. Sometimes it needs to be in order to correct driver peaks. You can make things easier by selecting smooth drivers. A 10" 2-way has other challenges, and most guys here would not attempt such a design. Depending on your goals, you might be well advised to consider a different woofer, even if it is a ten. It can take a while to learn enough to get the job done right. A measurement system would be very helpful, but there are costs involved. Some of the software, like HOLM , and PCD are free.

I built a 10" 2-way using the RS270P. It's a pricey driver, but worked well. I only bought one though. It's biggest advantage was higher output, and lower distortion. (Compared to other drivers I own. )

Speakers that sound good, and play loud cost more than the ones that are more SPL limited. If you are using a sub, small speakers can perform very well.

[djg]

Human Speakers has a 10" two way kit. They make kit reproductions of 1970 style speakers and speakers in that style. Simple 1970s "crossovers".

[djg]

If you want a horn/CD tweeter yo can make various "Econowave" speakers.

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/f...our-pcd-mettle