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Redundant Question? Yes. Still undecided, afraid so.....

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  • Redundant Question? Yes. Still undecided, afraid so.....

    First off, allow me to apologize for asking such a redundant question. But, I don't want my answer to be skewed by the likes of google's search algorithm and thought I would ask the actual people who delve more into DIY than I do.

    But I have a serious curiosity about the age-old question. Big sub or small sub. I'm planning a subwoofer enclosure design for my 4th gen 4runner. With it being a larger SUV. It obviously has more airspace within. This is why I'm unable to use my ultimax or max-x (both 10" variants) in it. So the options which I'm considering are two 12" CT sounds MESO subwoofers or a single Dayton Max-x 15".

    My main concern with either build is considering a sealed setup. I've done ported all my life, but since hearing a sealed setup with my music tastes. Which consist of Mostly Rock and House Music (fast, articulate drums&low frequency notes). I feel that I should go sealed.

    But this little tick at the back of my brain is always telling me "but, it doesn't go down to 20hz" and also causes me a lot of stress, knowing that the sub in a recommended enclosure isn't going down to 20 unless I port it. I would do a 6th order bandpass ut my winisd skills aren't the best yet for designing an enclosure of that complexity.

    15, yes it would reach lower than a 12" sub-sealed, but the recommended sealed volume listed rates it for an f3 of 38 hz.
    But two 12" subs would also have the potential of doubling the output of the lower frequencies if I'm getting that right?

    So if anyone would be willing to offer some input on any alternatives, anything relating to the question at hand. It would be of much appreciation.

    Notes: Once again, so sorry about asking the age-old question. I understand it's a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" (which the egg did btw). But if anyone has any experience in this area and has solved or understood the compromises of either setup then that would be awesome.

  • #2
    Mike... almost everything you stated there is wrong so it's hard to know where to start, but have you heard of cabin gain? This phenomema is the result of pressurization of the air mass inside a vehicle by a subwoofer that can result in a rather large boost in LF levels extending all the way to DC. This also makes anything but a sealed sub unnecessary in most cases. Every interior space has some degree of cabin gain and passenger vehicles in general are very small compared to a living spaces so you will still get a fair bit of gain in an SUV. The sub you chose will depend on the Spl you want to achieve, if it's relatively modest a 10" could be a viable option.. and no the driver size itself has no effect at all on how low it will go but it will affect the amount of spl that can be generated at the lowest frequencies,
    Paul O


    • #3
      Originally posted by MikeyBikey View Post
      It obviously has more airspace within. This is why I'm unable to use my ultimax or max-x (both 10" variants) in it.
      nope - that doesn't mean you cant use your 10" at all...

      ...and in terms of music, you're not really missing out if it can't play to 20Hz. Unless you find some bizarre synth music where the recording artist literally mastered the track so its unplayable on most peoples stereos (or feel like listening to dedicated bass test tracks or something) musical content will all be 30Hz and above - the greatest majority of what you perceive as deep bass being up over 40Hz, and that punchy stuff....60-80Hz...

      Constructions: Dayton+SB 2-Way v1 | Dayton+SB 2-Way v2 | Fabios (SB Monitors)
      Refurbs: KLH 2 | Rega Ela Mk1


      • #4
        In my previous car I had a 10" Alpine Type-R sub @ 2ohms in a roughly 0.5 cu^ft sealed enclosure being driven by a 500w amp. Alpine's sealed specs state an F3 of 46Hz. There was never a time where I thought to myself, "Man, this sub just doesn't get low enough." And that's with the sub in the trunk having to compete with the rear seats and rear deck (Though I did remove the factory sub in the rear deck to open it up). I mostly listen to Rock, Hard Rock, Metal, some Hip Hop, Alternative, and Indie.

        Unless I'm misunderstanding the interior of your 4Runner you wont' have any seats/deck to compete with at all. A single sealed 10" with a good source can go a loooooong way. I'm sure that 15" Max-X would sound great, but unless your goal is to blow the pantyhose of the drivers next to you, IMO it would also be overkill.


        • #5
          For good car audio subwoofer duty, IMO you've got to consider what's happening in the 80~200 Hz range as much as you're considering what's happening below that. So, considering your choice in music, I'd suggest going for more smaller drivers rather than one large one, because they do tend to have more upper bandwidth. Using low Le/Re drivers should also produce better results. And spend a LOT of time getting the alignment and phase correlation right between your midbass drivers and the subwoofers.

          BTW, I use two Alpine Type R 12" drivers in my Hyundai Tucson, powered with 1.2kW of class D goodness, and I don't consider it "overkill" .
          Brian Steele


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brian Steele View Post
            BTW, I use two Alpine Type R 12" drivers in my Hyundai Tucson, powered with 1.2kW of class D goodness, and I don't consider it "overkill" .
            Haha, perhaps "overkill" was the wrong word. Unnecessary maybe? I guess it all depends on what your goals are .


            • #7
              Would the MX10-22 work in a type1 Bandpass (one side sealed, the other ported, speaker inside) with the sealed side around 0.5ft-cu (14L) and the ported side about 0.35ft-cu (9L) with a 12inch X 3in-diameter port?
              Should allow an F3/6/10 around 40/35/30hz which is deeper than regular sealed, but still lets the sub run to 110db+ at 400watts.
              My first 2way build