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SoundEasy V28 released - ANSI-CTA-2034 automatic measurements

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  • bohdan
    replied
    Hi George,

    The idea of having embedded T-nuts for secure attachment of a loudspeaker supporting structure seems quite good.

    Otherwise, one would solely rely on balancing the loudspeaker on the turntable. This is particularly helpful in “vertical polar measurements”, where the loudspeaker needs to be placed on it’s right side, with the microphone facing the tweeter (typically). In this situation, the loudspeaker can be easily unbalanced.

    Give that the ceiling-to-floor distance is typically 2.5 meters, performing DIY in-room SPL measurements would optimize FFT windowing when the loudspeaker is placed 1.25m from the floor. This would call for the supporting structure + turntable height to be around 120cm.

    Will you be providing such structure with the turntable as an option to purchase?.
    If yes, do you have the costing?.

    Best Regards,
    Bohdan

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    Each table top will have 6 M8 T nuts to allow securing your own stand on the table. As shown here is an idea to slide the extrusion along the rail nuts secured loosely to the T nuts so that the rail can slide for fwd&aft adjustment. Longer extrusion rail nuts are preferred for a smoother slide.

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    When using the turntable for vertical polar measurements, the first thing is to determine where the center of gravity is looking at the front panel. This can be approximated laying the speaker on its side with a rod, for example a curtain rod, underneath. Move the speaker along the rolling rod until the speaker will tilt like a seesaw back and forth, the rod location is about where the center of gravity is. It is best to avoid this point from hanging out of the base of the turntable. If you have a stand that is not secured to the table top, then this should not exceed the speaker stand feet. Once you have determined where the center of gravity is, decide where the mic will be pointed at on the front panel of the speaker. This point will be set to the table rotation center. If the distance of this point between the center of gravity exceeds the radius of the turntable base (about 20cm, see illustration below) or the feet, that means you may have to secure the stand to the table top, and maybe expand the base of the turntable. In the illustration below, the red cross is the assumed mic location (center of table rotation), the green line is the assumed center of gravity location.

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    For most people starting out in measurements automation might wonder how to use a single turntable to do the vertical polar measurement using the latest V28. Below is one simplest way I think can be done.

    Notes:
    1. Speaker stand is a commercially available type. Choose one that have the three feet on a diameter less than 30cm. This will give you some room to shift it around so that the center of rotation is closer to where you desire. (white cap is the center of rotation in the picture)
    2. L shapped support should be used to extend the clamp to hold the speaker. I propose the length to be some 40 cm, it will be used to help predict whether the speaker center of gravity might hang out over the edge of the speaker table or not (normally should be well within.
    3. As shown in the photo, the longer having side will be lined up with one foot of the stand to provide stability leverage. The speaker CG would generally be between the stand post and the stand foot, and should not exceed the foot.
    4. Get the center of rotation as close to the desired point on the speaker as possible.
    5. Spin the speaker wire around the post before connecting to the speaker, this will minimize the chances of accidentally tripping the cable which would topple the speaker stand.
    6. Leave some slack in the speaker cable because the cable may be further wrapped onto the post.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_2244.jpg Views:	0 Size:	377.4 KB ID:	1486378
    Attached Files

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  • soongsc
    replied
    For those whom are interested in adding turntable automation to measurements, BodzioSoftware has added some more information to their website:

    http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/

    We are currently working on combining two turntables for full sphere measurement potential. The current configuration we are working on is a more common two axis measurement setup as shown in the conceptual layout below:

    This setup is more commonly used on speakers for open field application where the speaker radiates into free space as it is raised high above the ground. It also eliminates the need for the speaker to be manually flipped on its side during ANSI-CTA-2034 performance tests. We are also considering a cylindrical type of measurement setup which seems to be more closer to indoor performance consideration in practice. I would certainly appreciate some opinions as to which setup would be more important for SoundEasy users out there. We could use both for different application, so either way could come first depending on which way is desired by more users.

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    In light of the offer that Bohdan has announced, we have looked into more detail on handling turntable orders for SoundEasy users. Please also review information in our blog. Our process in handling orders is as follows: 1. Notify us of interest in purchasing. You will be entered into a shipping sequence list. 2. Provide shipping information to complete the listing, and we will let you know your position in line/que. 3. When product is ready to ship, we will ask for SoundEasy key number and notify for payment which we will then allow for a week to receive payment before moving to the next in line. 4. Upon receipt of payment, we will notify Bodzio Software the SoundEasy key number so whatever other offers they provide can be referenced, and ship the table. 5. Missed payment within the allowed time will move the person down two places on the list. If you have dropped out of the free shipping sequence because of this, we will let you know so that you can decide whether you still wish to purchase the turntable. The third time you have missed payment, we will take you off the list and you will have to start over again.

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    Thanks Bohdan, hope this will inspire more projects with growing improvements. As we are starting some work on second axis ideas. I will be posting progress. The basic area is to be able to hold a speaker in the air with minimum acoustic interference. The tricky part so accommodating a range of speaker sizes. For this, we initially will use speakers as small as a Yamaha NS-10 to as large as a Behringer B300 as design goal. Some changes from a previous post is that instead of using an IEC baffle, we are considering sphere type driver mount to minimize angle varying diffraction effects. IKEA wooden bowels are quite nice for smaller drivers, but we also need to figure out what to do measuring larger drivers. George

    Leave a comment:


  • bohdan
    replied
    Hi Jay,

    Thank you for your question. It got me thinking about broader picture, and here is what I am happy to offer.
    1. As I mentioned before, the quickest way for you to get V28 is to purchase V27 from PE and send me an email with your serial number. I will email you free upgrade to V28.
    2. I offer a free upgrade to V28 from ANY SoundEasy version to everyone who also purchases the Cyrus System compatible turntable. George has already offered free shipping outside Taiwan to the first 15 customers – see his website. https://augene.blogspot.com/2022/03/...udspeaker.html
    3. For all other commercial questions, please contact me directly.[email protected]
    Those of you, who did so in the past, have been offered a far better deal, then a blanket answer.
    This is because I value your honesty and have always responded to your individual circumstances.


    Anyway, shot me an email Jay. I am happy to help.

    Best Regards,
    Bohdan

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    Originally posted by jmb View Post
    What is the price to upgrade from v22?
    I believe it is the same upgrading from any version US$25

    Leave a comment:


  • jmb
    replied
    What is the price to upgrade from v22?

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    Originally posted by 4thtry View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I am a Soundeasy user and am thinking about upgrading so that I can perform automated spinorama measurements on my DIY speaker building projects. However, the current high cost of automated turntables makes this impossible for the budget oriented DIY person. I have been searching, but nothing seems to be available. Can you direct me to where I can find additional information on low cost DIY loudspeaker turntables? Thanks. Bill
    Hi Bill, Please go to Bodzio Software web site for the link to the information. There is a link to my blog which includes spec, package content, and pricing. The automated feature is implemented into SoundEasy V28 which interfaces with our turntable. We looked at other people doing DIY turntables, and decided it would be hard to maintain consistent accuracy, complicated to use, and cumbersome to upgrade. So a more modular approach was taken carefully balancing the design, cost, and accuracy as reasonable as we could while working closely with Bohdan. So in practice, a DIYer would be able to even customize to their own needs if they desire so as long as they used the original mechanism and interface. George

    Leave a comment:


  • 4thtry
    replied
    Originally posted by soongsc View Post
    I am new to this forum, primarily because we generally work quietly developing audio technology, and had the privilege to work with Bohdan to develop the turntable for SoundEasy. The main benefit is reduced manhours needed for reciplicating measurements in the process of design changes. Computer based modeling can do many things, but generally getting the models to be precise enough to minimize need for sound field testing is quite expensive, I do not think any driver manufacturer is set to model to such precision, so improving the measurement process makes “measure and tweak” much more efficient. Further thinking is that most designers like us are quite limited in space as well, so it also benefits to keep the mic and DUT acoustic centers at constant locations in the room to maximize reflection free windowing of measurements. There are a few expensive turntables out there, but they were so expensive that we could not imagine someone like us whom enjoy a powerhouse like SoundEasy could shell out thousands of dollars just to do this kind of measurement. So we just figured, we would develop one which hopefully can be of benefit to other SoundEasy users. As we speak, we are already starting out to work on design of measurement add-on jigs to facilitate driver measurements and loudspeaker measurements. One thing I am thinking is a jig to hold and IEC baffle for axisymmetric driver measurements so that manufacturers and users can have a better understanding of the radiation pattern. The idea is that if such data can be used in the design process, then the initial design simulation results of sound field radiation will not be too far from the finished design. Automation of the measurement process helps quite significantly in this aspect of more advanced driver database rather than using piston models, which hopefully Bohdan can further create more advanced features in the years to come.
    Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I am a Soundeasy user and am thinking about upgrading so that I can perform automated spinorama measurements on my DIY speaker building projects. However, the current high cost of automated turntables makes this impossible for the budget oriented DIY person.
    I have been searching, but nothing seems to be available. Can you direct me to where I can find additional information on low cost DIY loudspeaker turntables? Thanks. Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • soongsc
    replied
    I am new to this forum, primarily because we generally work quietly developing audio technology, and had the privilege to work with Bohdan to develop the turntable for SoundEasy. The main benefit is reduced manhours needed for reciplicating measurements in the process of design changes. Computer based modeling can do many things, but generally getting the models to be precise enough to minimize need for sound field testing is quite expensive, I do not think any driver manufacturer is set to model to such precision, so improving the measurement process makes “measure and tweak” much more efficient. Further thinking is that most designers like us are quite limited in space as well, so it also benefits to keep the mic and DUT acoustic centers at constant locations in the room to maximize reflection free windowing of measurements. There are a few expensive turntables out there, but they were so expensive that we could not imagine someone like us whom enjoy a powerhouse like SoundEasy could shell out thousands of dollars just to do this kind of measurement. So we just figured, we would develop one which hopefully can be of benefit to other SoundEasy users. As we speak, we are already starting out to work on design of measurement add-on jigs to facilitate driver measurements and loudspeaker measurements. One thing I am thinking is a jig to hold and IEC baffle for axisymmetric driver measurements so that manufacturers and users can have a better understanding of the radiation pattern. The idea is that if such data can be used in the design process, then the initial design simulation results of sound field radiation will not be too far from the finished design. Automation of the measurement process helps quite significantly in this aspect of more advanced driver database rather than using piston models, which hopefully Bohdan can further create more advanced features in the years to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • bohdan
    replied
    Hi,

    Yes, you can do this manually. The process is simple and described in the manual:

    https://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Chapter_16_4.pdf

    However, as I understand, people are using automated measurement processes, because they want to avoid doing this manually.

    ANSI-CTA-2034 is here to stay. The concept links measurement data with listener's preferences, and is fully explained by Sean Olive in his papers.
    But, the standard requires very large amount of spatial data to be collected. I am sure, you know how mundane and error-prone is the manual process.

    Hence the turntable.

    Best Regards,
    Bohdan


    Leave a comment:


  • augerpro
    replied
    Is the automatic turntable required for the CTA 2034 measurements, or can I do it manually with my existing turntable?

    Leave a comment:

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