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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
    Were there any DML panel speakers there Paul? You know, the ones that no one on here seems to know anything about
    I guess that "JAB" was intended for me? Gobel was there with there newest speaker that uses bending wave technology. It only cost 80k. lol

    Leave a comment:


  • tktran
    replied
    Originally posted by Geoff Millar View Post
    These speakers aren't from a hi fi show, just a normal commercial site; the drivers look very much like SB Acoustics, the woofers are the ones with the difficult-to -mount frames:

    https://www.adelaidespeakers.com/tim...rstanders.html

    The company also sells these as kits. For Oz, they seem like good value for a commercial product.

    I'm not entering into the price debate, merely wish to reinforce the point that some drivers used in retail designs are available to the DIY community.

    Geoff
    Hi Geoff,

    This speaker company creates products that are outstanding value. And they are more busy with orders than they want to be, which is a good problem to have, I guess.

    Best regards,
    Thanh in Darwin

    Leave a comment:


  • mattsk8
    replied
    Originally posted by Rory Buszka View Post
    As long as we're not complaining about the price of commercial products (since that's really none of our business), I'm in.

    I have heard the Von Schweikert model in the first photo when it was being sold under the sister brand Endeavor, and it's quite good. Stupendous bass for the size of the woofers.
    Rory!! Good to hear from you man, hope you're well! I heard the original Endeavors as well and loved them so much I set out on a journey to see if I could do a 3 way build using the XT25 and the L6 that sounded close to as good. I was all excited this year to listen to those Endeavors again so I could see how I was doing with my current build (XT25BG60, L6 mid, SB29NRX woofer) and not only did they swap tweeters, they weren't hooked up . Oh well, was still fun at Axpona hearing everything and catching up with some of the guys. Would've been great to see you, assuming you didn't go? I was actually surprised at the light crowd, I thought it would be jam-packed after not having it for a couple years straight.

    Leave a comment:


  • PWR RYD
    replied
    Were there any DML panel speakers there Paul? You know, the ones that no one on here seems to know anything about
    Last edited by PWR RYD; 04-26-2022, 06:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Carmody
    commented on 's reply
    Yes! "Looping nature scenes" is the perfect analogy!

  • Geoff Millar
    commented on 's reply
    I've used the SB16PFC-8 in Michael Chua's "Lark SM" two way with the Vifa BC25TG, it's a really nice driver and a very good sounding speaker. Pity about the frame shape, but they have been discontinued by SB in favour of a round version. I've also used the SB16 in a MLTL cabinet which Paul K kindly modeled for me.

    Geoff

  • bassman_soundking
    commented on 's reply
    Yes those do look like the SB lower line on MB drivers.
    I havent used any of them, but I bet if SB makes them they are better than expected by their price tag.
    I know I didnt have high expectations for the SIlverFlute drivers based on price and they surprised me.

  • bassman_soundking
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Carmody View Post

    Ha! I knew I must have stopped in that room for a reason! Honestly, they were up there with the weirdest-looking things I saw that day. I sat through the sales guy's whole pitch, too. As far as how they sounded, they were better than I expected. Which, honestly, I guess I wasn't expecting much. They were just SO unconventional that there were just so many things that could go wrong, you know? But they really just sort of sounded like a high-efficiency speaker--although they didn't have as much of the "barky" quality HE speakers often do (usually due to the throat resonances in the horns/waveguides).

    My biggest complaint with most "out there" speakers is that they almost exclusively play obscure music like a capella, or a bluegrass duo, or some spartan-sounding piano concerto. Never any sort of "standard" recording we've all heard, which is really what you need as a "control." So like, yeah this tune sounds "good" on here. But that's why they chose that tune.
    Agreed
    Auditioning speakers I have found in Stores is often the same just like TVs.
    If you ask them to play something not obscure they often have difficulty finding a way to do it.
    Im sure Im not the 1st guy to ask to play Hiroshima, Tears for Fears, Billy Joel or Samantha James etc. or to play familiar movie on a tv instead of looping nature scenes.

    I go to audition speakers with a few BRs, CDs and a USB drive.
    If they cant accomodate that I dont get much from the experience with foreign material.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geoff Millar
    replied
    These speakers aren't from a hi fi show, just a normal commercial site; the drivers look very much like SB Acoustics, the woofers are the ones with the difficult-to -mount frames:

    https://www.adelaidespeakers.com/tim...rstanders.html

    The company also sells these as kits. For Oz, they seem like good value for a commercial product.

    I'm not entering into the price debate, merely wish to reinforce the point that some drivers used in retail designs are available to the DIY community.

    Geoff

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Carmody
    replied
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    I heard the older version of the Endeavors too, and was impressed. That said- I prefer the F6 to the L6 in terms of midrange performance.

    Did you hear these Aries Surat? Would've liked to in person, as the design is so different. 4 dipolar 12" woofers, a huge mid/tweeter horn from the center, and a ribbon positioned with aligned AC of the mid horn:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_lKJ_chjR8

    If so, how did they sound to you?

    Wolf
    Ha! I knew I must have stopped in that room for a reason! Honestly, they were up there with the weirdest-looking things I saw that day. I sat through the sales guy's whole pitch, too. As far as how they sounded, they were better than I expected. Which, honestly, I guess I wasn't expecting much. They were just SO unconventional that there were just so many things that could go wrong, you know? But they really just sort of sounded like a high-efficiency speaker--although they didn't have as much of the "barky" quality HE speakers often do (usually due to the throat resonances in the horns/waveguides).

    My biggest complaint with most "out there" speakers is that they almost exclusively play obscure music like a capella, or a bluegrass duo, or some spartan-sounding piano concerto. Never any sort of "standard" recording we've all heard, which is really what you need as a "control." So like, yeah this tune sounds "good" on here. But that's why they chose that tune.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Carmody
    replied
    Originally posted by s7horton View Post
    That’s true, and it’s the reason I made the switch about 15 years ago from high end commercial speakers to building my own. That being said, it was no small feat understanding all that goes into speaker building, and I don’t even design the crossovers. What the commercial companies do that many of us aren’t willing to, is put their name on the line and sell their product. As Rory mentioned, I think we don’t want this thread to become about pricing, as so often in this hobby, we aren’t trying to reproduce more than one pair, and we don’t need the product to succeed to put food on the table. (I used “most” or “many” because there are some well respected folks here that have spent time on the commercial side) Really interesting thread.
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Seth. Bottom line, I'm not interested in starting a speaker company. Main reason being--and I'm sure you can attest to this--is that building and selling speakers does not scale well. What I like doing most is demystifying those great-sounding speakers that cost as much as a car, and enabling the average music lover to have something of the same caliber in his own living room at a fraction of the cost. The drawbacks are: (1) he has to put in his own time and effort, and (2) there's no brand name, ergo very little resale value. But still, it's a hobby, and I'd argue a really fun one that gives you a lot of skills that cross a lot of disciplines.

    So yeah, I'm not interested in bashing the companies selling the speakers, because running a business is expensive! And I'm not bashing the customers, because I think, deep down, we're all music lovers, and if we didn't have DIY, we'd be at those shows drooling over these high-end speakers, thinking of ways to pinch pennies to save up so we could somehow own a pair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    I heard the older version of the Endeavors too, and was impressed. That said- I prefer the F6 to the L6 in terms of midrange performance.

    Did you hear these Aries Surat? Would've liked to in person, as the design is so different. 4 dipolar 12" woofers, a huge mid/tweeter horn from the center, and a ribbon positioned with aligned AC of the mid horn:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_lKJ_chjR8

    If so, how did they sound to you?

    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • s7horton
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Carmody View Post
    My takeaway of playing the "name that driver" game at the high-end shows is that it really goes to show that DIYers CAN get the same results as speakers costing 5 figures (if we're willing to put in the time and effort, that is)
    That’s true, and it’s the reason I made the switch about 15 years ago from high end commercial speakers to building my own. That being said, it was no small feat understanding all that goes into speaker building, and I don’t even design the crossovers. What the commercial companies do that many of us aren’t willing to, is put their name on the line and sell their product. As Rory mentioned, I think we don’t want this thread to become about pricing, as so often in this hobby, we aren’t trying to reproduce more than one pair, and we don’t need the product to succeed to put food on the table. (I used “most” or “many” because there are some well respected folks here that have spent time on the commercial side) Really interesting thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ugg10
    commented on 's reply
    Agreed, I am happy that there is around a 5-10 times mark up on the parts only bill of materials for commercial speakers as this then takes into account labour, design / development / testing amortisation, packaging, marketing and manufacturer / whole seller / retailer makeups. We all have to make a buck.

    However it does give me optimism that my WO24P + EM1308 + ET448 project (approx £1200 of materials) should give some commercial speakers of £5-10k a run for their money. Finger crossed.

  • Paul Carmody
    replied
    My takeaway of playing the "name that driver" game at the high-end shows is that it really goes to show that DIYers CAN get the same results as speakers costing 5 figures (if we're willing to put in the time and effort, that is)

    Leave a comment:

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