Introducing: The Pit Vipers (Ooh Yeah!!!)

[djg]

While you wait for one or two items to be restocked, other items may go out of stock. Again, I'd buy what is available now and the rest as it is restocked. Are you going to be done with the cabinets next week? I definitely don't recommend cutting driver holes and rebates without the drivers in hand. There's a whole lotta work that goes into a DIY speaker. Your coils may be available before you have finished cabs to put them in.

[Wolf]

I look at it this way;

14AWG air-core = 18AWG steel laminate; usually these are pretty close. You could likely get by with a 16AWG air on the better side of results. I don't prefer to use smaller than 18AWG SL or 16AWG air on woofers if at all possible to keep the DCR low. Outside of that, Paul's recommendation is sound.

[Serenitynow]

I understand that and thanks for your reply. But, what is the fulcrum regarding DCR in this application? I' ve seen anywhere from .3 to 3.0 DCR in Iron-cores and Air-Cores.
I don't know where the cutoff line vs. performance in this situation falls.

I would think trying to get to the same DCR as suggested in the BOM would be best. But Air-Cores don't seem to go as low as Iron-Cores.

Hence my delima.

[Geoff Millar]

Due to the low value of the $A compared to the US, it might (might) be worth looking at ordering from Oz, but if I were you I'd take Paul's advice on what to use.

Geoff

[Wolf]

It is currently hard to get the steel-lam cores for those kinds of coils. This is why they are few and far between.

Wolf

[Serenitynow]

You can buy larger wire gauge air core inductors from Madisound or Meniscusaudio. They have lower dcr but unfortunately cost many times more.

I saw them. But, I'm not sure what DCR is safe to go with here.
I'm new to passive crossovers.

PE also has the correct mH Air-Core inductors, but they all have higher DCR.

[PWR RYD]

You can buy larger wire gauge air core inductors from Madisound or Meniscusaudio. They have lower dcr but unfortunately cost many times more.

[Serenitynow]

Honestly, you could get away with any sort of 5.0 mH inductor. Air core, P-Core, Umlaut-core... whatever core. The 5.0 mH value is what counts here. The added series resistance of this vs. that core material is probably gonna be a wash in the final product. The only one I'd avoid is the 20 AWG one, because its Series Resistance is over 2 Ohms! But the ones with ESR of 1 Ohm or less I'd feel comfortable using.

I just don't understand how no one has iron-core inductors right now. I say that because I know some places wind their own inductors in-house. Have they just not been bothering making their own cored inductors, and waiting on the ones to come off the boats? In other words, you may want to call around to the other stores whom I won't name directly here, to see if they'll wind you a pair.

Thanks Paul.
Unfortunately , the only 5.0 mH inductors I find have a DCR of 1.3 or above. I don't know what this high resistance compared to your specd inductor will do to the performance of the speaker.
So, I'm hesitant about this decision.

I have everything else ready to order ( except a cap that is also backordered thru PE ) but would like to get everything ready to go.

I've also been working on the enclosure design. I think I need to make it about .75" deeper to account for the bracing I have in mind. This shouldn't be a problem correct ? As long as I keep the internal volume at 2.5 cu ft and the front baffle the same, I should be good.

[Paul Carmody]

Paul Carmody

I see now that the 5.0mH Iron-Core inductor specified as L4 in the crossover network is back-ordered and delayed through PE until the end of August. 🤬

Is there a suitable substitute for this component without more complex modifications to the crossover ?

Thanks again.
Todd

Honestly, you could get away with any sort of 5.0 mH inductor. Air core, P-Core, Umlaut-core... whatever core. The 5.0 mH value is what counts here. The added series resistance of this vs. that core material is probably gonna be a wash in the final product. The only one I'd avoid is the 20 AWG one, because its Series Resistance is over 2 Ohms! But the ones with ESR of 1 Ohm or less I'd feel comfortable using.

I just don't understand how no one has iron-core inductors right now. I say that because I know some places wind their own inductors in-house. Have they just not been bothering making their own cored inductors, and waiting on the ones to come off the boats? In other words, you may want to call around to the other stores whom I won't name directly here, to see if they'll wind you a pair.

[Serenitynow]

Paul Carmody

I see now that the 5.0mH Iron-Core inductor specified as L4 in the crossover network is back-ordered and delayed through PE until the end of August. 🤬

Is there a suitable substitute for this component without more complex modifications to the crossover ?

Thanks again.
Todd

[Serenitynow]

Todd, I honestly can't be sure but I doubt EQ could do what you're asking. The modeling uses multiple data inputs to provide the results: T/S values of the woofer, the enclosure's volume, and for the TLs, the dimensions of the cabinet, especially the lines' lengths and configurations, along with locations of the woofer and port or terminus plus the density and location of stuffing in the line. The responses shown by the red lines in the graphs are, of course, idealized, not taking into account room effects or dimensions or baffle step losses or none of the little variations in the woofer's actual output.
Paul

Thanks Paul K
I think I understand what you're saying.

[Paul K.]

Trying to learn a little here.
I see the differing responses of the woofer in all 3 cabinet models. Couldn't the same effect be accomplished with EQ adjustments ?

Todd

Todd, I honestly can't be sure but I doubt EQ could do what you're asking. The modeling uses multiple data inputs to provide the results: T/S values of the woofer, the enclosure's volume, and for the TLs, the dimensions of the cabinet, especially the lines' lengths and configurations, along with locations of the woofer and port or terminus plus the density and location of stuffing in the line. The responses shown by the red lines in the graphs are, of course, idealized, not taking into account room effects or dimensions or baffle step losses or none of the little variations in the woofer's actual output.
Paul

[Serenitynow]

In case it might be of interest, the attachment shows 3 graphs depicting modeled system bass responses for an input of 2.83v/1m for the Pit Vipers as built, and two different single-fold TLs, one an ML-TL and the other a tapered TL.
Paul
[ATTACH]n1487700[/ATTACH]

Trying to learn a little here.
I see the differing responses of the woofer in all 3 cabinet models. Couldn't the same effect be accomplished with EQ adjustments ?

Todd

[Paul K.]

In case it might be of interest, the attachment shows 3 graphs depicting modeled system bass responses for an input of 2.83v/1m for the Pit Vipers as built, and two different single-fold TLs, one an ML-TL and the other a tapered TL.
Paul
Pit Vipers.doc

[djg]

Ultramega retro. Someone with a cnc could do a modern version.



Beyond retro. JBL L100 foam grill.