Jims 3 way speaker build

[jimbones]

Chris Roemer sorry I didnt answer your question. I did not do y own TS measurements. I did a rub and buzz before installing and the zma once in the box. Current ID is 4 inch length is 10.25 inch.

[jimbones]

All, I resealed the cabinets and I do notice that the peaks in the zma are now even and the Fb is 32 hz.

[johnny5jz]

This looks so much better now.

[jimbones]

Here is the Fr of the woofer alone (no XO) and Port.

[johnny5jz]

These look far better than your previous measurements. Your impedance plot also looks so much better. You can move your tuning up by shortening your port, but it isn't necessary. How does it sound now that your box is sealed up?

[DeZZar]

Can we get the FRD files for these?

[Chris Roemer]

Your box is GOOD (this isn't rocket science - after all). An error of a Hz or 2 in tuning, or having the volume off by 10% just won't make a ton of difference.

Still, this "low Q" woofer isn't really suited to strong "deep" bass (like 30Hz), but 40Hz should absolutely be no problem.
If you can find a 30 or 32Hz test tone, your woofer shouldn't be moving much, but your port output should definitely blow your incense out, or "fan" it into brilliance! Even though you're -5dB down by then (compared to 50), it's still your port tuning freq.

[jimbones]

OK so lets say I wanted more "Pop" out of it. would I have to tune higher say 40 hz? I'm not getting down to 30 anyway.....
Previously I had an Eminence BP102 in a sealed cabinet and that had pop but it didnt go low but sounded better. Now that I know the tuning is not wrong here I just want to see how tuning will affect the sound characteristics

[rpb]

It's likely very room dependent, but I like to tune low. Real low. I'd rather pick up 5dB at 25hz, if I can, and loose some of the 50hz and higher.

If you look at the woofer transfer function in your sims, you will see a peak below 100hz. This makes 80hz a lot louder than 30hz. You can remedy that in the x-over Also, the port resonance at 500hz could use some attention. I think it was 4thtry that did something unique with the ports on one of his speakers, where he tuned out the resonance. If you don't hear this resonance, then don't bother .

[jimbones]

rpb the reason you see the 500hz bump is I was operating the woofer full range. Im pretty sure it goes away when I have the XO in place. Ok so yea my in room response is seeing a lot of output between 65 and 85 hz. Thanks so much for your input Im getting an education.Cant thank you guys enough

[jimbones]

here are the port and woofer with a 3rd order XO

[DeZZar]

OK so lets say I wanted more "Pop" out of it. would I have to tune higher say 40 hz? I'm not getting down to 30 anyway.....
Previously I had an Eminence BP102 in a sealed cabinet and that had pop but it didnt go low but sounded better. Now that I know the tuning is not wrong here I just want to see how tuning will affect the sound characteristics​

Your tuning is under 30hz - from eyeballing it I'd say more around 28hz. Not a big deal but here is an indication of how that models - 28hz tuning in blue.

Green is ideal, 32hz tuning - giving the deepest f3 and flattest magnitude.

If you start doing silly things like tuning all the way up at 40hz you end up with the third line there - a narrow peak that will likely boom and not sound great. End up with a sort of 'one note' system.

​

[jimbones]

Update: Good news for once lol. I had a wiring error in the mid section of the XO. Fixed it and of course makes a world of difference when the wiring is correct. Second I looked up some guides to speaker placement and there was "some" improvement as I moved the speakers 6 feet of the front wall and 4 feet of the side walls. It beings the speakers only 6 ft apart and then had to move the listening position in as well. Third, I use Roon for streaming. It has a built in DSP function so I put in a bass shelf 375hz and down -3.5db. That really helped. I adjusted the subs so they only contribute from 45hz and down. Now I can make minor tweaks as they will be meaningful with the XO wired correctly. Thanks for all the help I will publish the XO as it changes. The only issue is I dont only stream and I play vinyl, CD and play YouTube concerts from my large screen TV connected via Toslink to my DAC. So those wont have a DSP.
The only way I see around this is to put in my Mini dsp 2x4 for the woofer only and get another amp so I will BiAmp. But I dont want the mid/Twt going theoug the Mini dsp as it doesnt have the best clarity so I can go passive on the upper section. Thoughts??

[rpb]

If the mid wiring was changed, you should again check for proper polarity.

[jimbones]

rpb DSP only in roon when streaming, sounds way better reduced by 3.5 db. Yes I will be doing a complete set of measurements, zma, each driver separately and together and I want to learn about impulse response as well. absolutely check phase.

[rpb]

You can do a shelf with the x-over. Remove some padding, and use a 9mH 2 ohm coil on the woofer.

[jimbones]

rpb what would that look like a 9 mh and 2 ohm resistor?? I assume were talking pretty hi power resistor like 40-50 watt??

[rpb]

This coil, or something similar.

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-LW189-9.0mH-18-AWG-Perfect-Layer-Inductor-257-856?quantity=1

[jimbones]

no I meant schematic wise would it just be a series resistor after the coil?? or parallel

[Chris Roemer]

His suggested coil prob'ly has a DCR of around 2ohms.

[jimbones]

His suggested coil prob'ly has a DCR of around 2ohms.

yep I see. Just for the hell of it I added a 3 ohm resistor in series with my woofer and it helped. I disabled the DSP as it is no longer needed. This is just a test not sure if it is ok to keep it there

[rpb]

Take out some of the mid, and tweeter padding too. In my sim, I was able to get the mid abut 4 or 5dB louder than the woofer.

[jimbones]

rpb I tried that with the mid and it didnt sound right. I will try again tomorrow when I have more time to attempt to remove as much as I can without it sounding to bright, shouty etc.

[jimbones]

IM baaaaccckkkkk. Lol~
Ok so Ive been playing around with voicing and I got it sounding pretty good even if it is somewhat unconventional. Things to note:
1) I removed padding from mid and tweet and it sounds horrific, For some reason it sounds better with padding. I tried to lower the resistance but it still wants some.
2) Bass is still too loud. In my Roon Pgm I had to reduce bass level by 3.5 db. I tried to do it passively in the XO and I end up with a 3 ohm resistor on the woofer. Now I have never seen a woofer with padding on it so I don't know where to go with this. Keep it? options?
3) The footers on my cabinets were not stable and the cabinet had some wobble in it so I made it more stable for the time being and will make the plinth more rigid.
4) The HP section of the Mid requires quite a bit of capacitance to get it to sound right crossing over in the 300hz region. I dont like to use NPE in series with the Mid so what is the best type of Cap to use that isn't so physically large? I typically use Jantzen Superior Z Cap (red) but for super large caps (100uf) it would be big and expensive.
Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!!

[Wolf]

Don't leave that 3 ohm resistor there. If you use series resistance, it must be the DCR of the coil. Resistors on woofers put off a lot of heat, and can cause a fire hazard. I'm thinking you lined the woofer cabs, and if you only did that, stuffing them can bring down the level if you use enough. Plugging the ports can also reduce level. IIRC, you have dual woofers. Running them in series over parallel can lose 6dB.

Use an Audyn Q4, Jantzen CrossCap, or Clarity PX for the 100uF if it were me.

Wolf

[jimbones]

Don't leave that 3 ohm resistor there. If you use series resistance, it must be the DCR of the coil. Resistors on woofers put off a lot of heat, and can cause a fire hazard. I'm thinking you lined the woofer cabs, and if you only did that, stuffing them can bring down the level if you use enough. Plugging the ports can also reduce level. IIRC, you have dual woofers. Running them in series over parallel can lose 6dB.

Use an Audyn Q4, Jantzen CrossCap, or Clarity PX for the 100uF if it were me.

Wolf

I already have a high dcr coil (1 ohm) and i only have a single 12 in woofer. I do have some stuffing but not sure how much to pack into the cabinet. right now I would say it is kind of light. I will be making covers to seal the ports. Yep the Cross Cap looks like a good choice.

[jimbones]

Oh and I check the resistor to see if it gets warm but nothing, it is cold. I have an IR thermometer to check but if I had to guess it is room temp 70 degrees while playing.