SDC (not MWAF) 2022 fallout thread....

[rpb]

Were there any larger, more conventional speakers entered? It seems to me that a well designed 10" 3-way might have done well. Perhaps the difference in bass and dynamics would not matter in the scoring. Just curious.

The larger size and weight might make transporting, and handling difficult. Could that be part of the reason?

[Wolf]

Nick's Mnemosynes had that in spades, rpb. Big woofer, monkey coffin, big sound.

Wolf

[jhollander]

Nick's Mnemosynes had that in spades, rpb. Big woofer, monkey coffin, big sound.

Wolf

Not sure how those did not place. I'm thinking the small room was an issue.

[ugly woofer]

That would be judge #2

[Wolf]

Me neither.

[jhollander]

Copying Tom's format

MWAF 2022 Judges scores
Mini LX521 * SP08 * John Hollander
JUDGE 1:
*Clarity: 8 *Craftsmanship: 10 *Dynamic Range: 7 *Originality/Design: 8 *Soundstage/Imaging: 9 *Tonal Balance: 8
JUDGE 2:
Did not like
*Clarity: 7 *Craftsmanship: 8 *Dynamic Range: 4 *Originality/Design: 8 *Soundstage/Imaging: 4 *Tonal Balance: 3
JUDGE 3:
*Clarity: 8 *Craftsmanship: 9.5 *Dynamic Range: 7.5 *Originality/Design: 9 *Soundstage/Imaging: 7 *Tonal Balance: 6
ALL SCORES TOTAL: 131 * AVERAGE: 7.27

LR Mains* SP11 * John Hollander
JUDGE 1:
*Clarity: 7 *Craftsmanship: 7 *Dynamic Range: 7 *Originality/Design: 6 *Soundstage/Imaging: 7 *Tonal Balance: 8
JUDGE 2:
*Clarity: 9 *Craftsmanship: 9 *Dynamic Range: 8 *Originality/Design: 8 *Soundstage/Imaging: 10 *Tonal Balance: 9
JUDGE 3:
*Clarity: 8 *Craftsmanship: 9 *Dynamic Range: 8 *Originality/Design: 7 *Soundstage/Imaging: 9 *Tonal Balance: 9
ALL SCORES TOTAL: 145 * AVERAGE: 8.05

[jhollander]

I'm a tougher critic

[KEtheredge87]

"JUDGE 2: Did not like"
Ouch! I assume that was your interpretation of J2's scoring? That would be some serious feedback if J2 doled out the harshness like that!

[jhollander]

Actual comments were "Mid-bass too prominent, Highs exaggerated. Very limited dynamics. Female voices strident. Soundstage two dimensional." I thought "did not like" was nicer

[ugly woofer]

Over $300
Mnemosyne SP39
Judge 1
Clarity 9 * Craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 9 * Originality/design 6 * Soundstage/imaging 9 * Tonal balance 9 * Average 8.67
T1: Good bass, good sense of space, very good! T2: Fun! Great pace - toe tapping! Want to sing along. Good T3: Good vocal

Judge 2
Clarity 7 * Craftsmanship 6 * Dynamic range 9 * Originality/design 6 * Soundstage/imaging 6 * Tonal balance 7 * Average 6.5
Low bass weak, soundstage depth limited, place between speakers, transients good, dynamics good. string sound good, male voice good

Judge 3
Clarity 9 * Craftsmanship 9.5 * Dynamic range 9 * Originality/design 8 * Soundstage/imaging 7 * Tonal balance 7 * Average 8.25
T1: clarity , good bass T2: Little forward in the 2-3khz? , good dynamics T3: Nice soundstage, smooth bass response

Total 140.5 Average 7.8

Under $300
Carl & Stuart SP40
Judge 1
Clarity 10 * Craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 7 * Originality/design 10 * Soundstage/imaging 9 * Tonal Balance 9 * Average 9.17
T!: Great vocal! Great image. Nice! T2: Nice vocal, JT sounds like JT. Nice layers of sound. T3: Great vocal Fantastic!!

Judge 2
Clarity 7 * Craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 5 * Originality/design 10 * Soundstage/imaging 6 * Tonal balance 5 * Average 7.17
Upper bass heavy, low bass weak, voices heavy, imaging two dimensional, good separation of voices, transients a little soft, high laugh content.

Judge 3
Clarity 8 * craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 8 * Originality 10 * Soundstage/imaging 9 * Tonal Balance 8 * Average 8.83
T1: Great center image! Good bass volume, little boomy, nice tonal balance. T2: Sounds good, bass boost slightly. T3: Good soundstage, could use a little more tweeter, port farting a little!

Total 151 Average 8.39

[ugly woofer]

Judging by the comments, it would seem that judge 2cwas in a different room.

[ugly woofer]

Hey John, are you sure that your numbers are right for your under $300 entry? By my numbers I'm ahead of you.

[jhollander]

They are correct. Fan favorite trumps placing? I'm OK with trading

[Billet]

The B12s

Over $300 class

Clarity 9, 4, 8
Craftsmanship 7, 5, 5
Dynamic Range 6, 5, 8
Originality/Design 7, 5, 5
Soundstage/Imaging 8, 4, 7
Total Balance 7, 5, 8

Good image, good space, clear, clean, guitars good, they sing!, good vocal, instruments great

Low bass weak, soundstage weak, transients a little soft, some congestion of voices, male voice has bump

No low bass, good tonal balance, great job!, nice tonal balance / response, tweeter level good, good soundstage, center image not great / ok, good tonal balance

Total 113
Average 6.28

[Billet]

By the way, I gave myself a 6.33

[AdamM3]

Nighthawk SP30

Over 300

Judge 1
Clarity 9 * Craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 8 * Originality/design 9 * Soundstage/Imaging 9 * Tonal Balance 9 * Average 9
T1: great bass. Great Image! Disappear. T2: Good vocal, good spacing, good pace. T3: Very good. Good vocals, details. female voice very good. Great!

Judge 2
Clarity 9 * Craftsmanship 10 * Dynamic range 9 * Originality/design 10 * Soundstage/Imaging 10 * Tonal Balance 8 * Average 9.3
Low bass weak. Sense of depth good. Good definition. Transients good. Detail of inflection in female voice good. Good separation of voices. Soundstage good. Male voices slightly heavy.

Judge 3
Clarity 9 * Craftsmanship 9 * Dynamic range 8 * Originality/design 9 * Soundstage/Imaging 9 * Tonal Balance 8 * Average 8.67
T1: Nice soundstage. T2: Nice center image, Good bass impact, tonal balance of a little around 1khz. T3: voice a little forward, again 1-2khz, nice bass, open soundstage.

Total: 162. Average: 9

[DrewsBrews]

I'd agree to move the speakers to the communal room. Hopefully that wouldn't conflict with insurance/fire code. If I remember right there seemed to be lots of unused space under the 2nd story, behind the announcement/award table.

Also the interviewing spot seemed suuuper awkward.

If the speakers are no longer in the room next to the judging room, then maybe photos, interviews, and staging could be done in that room instead. That would better segregate the social and jam room from the event work. Keeping the social areas more cohesive, potentially streamlining the event work, and hopefully giving a more controlled/calm environment for interviews.

[Wolf]

I'd agree to move the speakers to the communal room. Hopefully that wouldn't conflict with insurance/fire code. If I remember right there seemed to be lots of unused space under the 2nd story, behind the announcement/award table.

Also the interviewing spot seemed suuuper awkward.

If the speakers are no longer in the room next to the judging room, then maybe photos, interviews, and staging could be done in that room instead. That would better segregate the social and jam room from the event work. Keeping the social areas more cohesive, potentially streamlining the event work, and hopefully giving a more controlled/calm environment for interviews.

I didn't even know you were there. I would have liked to have met you. It's possible we did cross paths and converse but I'm not positive that I met you. Maybe next time in Indiana we can make for sure that I know who you are and put a face to your name.
Wolf

[PWR RYD]

Seems judge 2 was a bit of a low bass junky and almost always scored projects lower than the other two. In his defense it must be pretty hard to judge so many projects with just a few minutes to hear each of them. Probably stayed seated in the same spot all day.

At DIY Iowa, InDIYana, and Meniscus/CSS events speakers play for at least 10 minutes... much longer if you consider the Friday and Saturday evening informal listening sessions. And a lot of us get up and move around to hear the speakers both on axis and off axis, front of the room and back to hear if there is are room induced nulls.

Anyway, good job to everyone who made the effort to travel to Dayton and enter a project. And that's all I have to say about that ;)

[Wolf]

Just to say, Tom switched to the right and Javad to center seats at some point. I think it's the only time I've noticed that over the years.

[ugly woofer]

Sound is subjective, and the room was questionable, so the only score that I take exception to is the 6 for craftsmanship.

[DrewsBrews]

I didn't even know you were there. I would have liked to have met you. It's possible we did cross paths and converse but I'm not positive that I met you. Maybe next time in Indiana we can make for sure that I know who you are and put a face to your name.
Wolf

You had the little studio monitor style 3ways right?

I think we talked very briefly about Michael H.'s build and the HiVi top mount tweeter etc, Though you were hanging with someone else so I let you guys go on. I'm balding with facial hair, I wore a Scythian tour t-shirt on Friday and Cake t-shirt Saturday. I was just spectating to check it out. Talked to a handful of folks but spent most of my time in the Jam room listening.

[DrewsBrews]

Craftsmanship is a tough one IMO. The end product is highly dependent on skill and available tools.

Some folks have cnc routers and can easily make cuts that would be very hard for me to freehand with a router.. Unless I make a jig specifically for the cut, which I have yet to try.

Others may not have a high level of skill, but if they know that and work within their limitations to make something that might be basic but is relatively free from flaws, then I'd consider that good craftsmanship.

[Wolf]

You had the little studio monitor style 3ways right?

I think we talked very briefly about Michael H.'s build and the HiVi top mount tweeter etc, Though you were hanging with someone else so I let you guys go on. I'm balding with facial hair, I wore a Scythian tour t-shirt on Friday and Cake t-shirt Saturday. I was just spectating to check it out. Talked to a handful of folks but spent most of my time in the Jam room listening.

Yep, that was me. I remember being asked about the TN28, but the person is not in memory. We'll catch up again at the next one...
Heads up CSS Grand Rapids event is Sept 23/24.

Wolf

[wogg]

Mine was waiting for me to come back from a weekend trip. Very interesting!
Supernova Minimus

Category: Judge 1,2,3
Clarity: 7, 10, 8
Craftsmanship: 5, 6, 6
Dynamic Range: 7, 7, 8
Originality / Design: 6, 6, 6
Soundstage / Imaging: 2, 10, 7
Tonal Balance: 7, 10 ,6

Total 124, Average 6.89

Judge 1
T1: Good vocal. Good balance. Not much image
T2: Good vocal
T3: Good vocal clarity.
Very good. Just need to work on placement to see if image improves.

Judge 2
Soundstage very good. Voices very good. Low bass limited, but rest very balanced. Transients and harmonics great, good separation of voices, dynamics etc. Very listenable.

Judge 3
T1: Little bright, tweeter ~1dB too hot?
T2: Good soundstage. Needs more BSC?
T3: Good clarity. Nice soundstage

Seat 1 must have had a weird room interaction with the placement or something, definitely way off the other opinions on imaging. The craftsmanship and originality make sense for a re-purposed vintage cabinet and straightforward 2 way design.