T/S Parameters changed on the Dayton Reference Subs?

[satx]

Have the specs changed on the Reference subs over the years? I see smaller recommended enclosures now than I used to see. I have a sealed RSS390HF that I bought in 2014 or so and I’m thinking of adding a second one in my new house.

Thanks,
Evan

[Chris Roemer]

they can

[DrewsBrews]

They offer an identical looking "HO" version as well. Only one letter difference in the model number so might be easy to miss. Especially if you aren't expecting to find different versions of "the same" driver.

[satx]

Ok, so there was no whole scale updating that you guys know of though? It just seems like all of the HF’s now work in smaller enclosures than they used to.

[Chris Roemer]

I've got 2 datasets for that driver in my WinISD DB.
Initially (yr?): Qts = 0.42, Fs = 18, Vas = 9.6cf - (indicating 16Hz F3 in about 11 vented cu.ft.)
Since 2018: Qts = 0.43, Fs = 20, Vas = 7.5cf - (indicating 17Hz F3 in about 9 vented cu.ft.)

So, yeah, maybe -15%-20% smaller? I'll bet nary a diff. if both were placed in the same size box though.
Even less of a diff. if going sealed (5% "Q" shift, couple Hz change in F3).

[satx]

I've got 2 datasets for that driver in my WinISD DB.
Initially (yr?): Qts = 0.42, Fs = 18, Vas = 9.6cf - (indicating 16Hz F3 in about 11 vented cu.ft.)
Since 2018: Qts = 0.43, Fs = 20, Vas = 7.5cf - (indicating 17Hz F3 in about 9 vented cu.ft.)

So, yeah, maybe -15%-20% smaller? I'll bet nary a diff. if both were placed in the same size box though.
Even less of a diff. if going sealed (5% "Q" shift, couple Hz change in F3).

You beat me to it; I was going to check my WinISD files when I got home because I modeled the first sub there. I didn’t think about it until this morning. Thanks for that though!

I'm actually thinking of buying another and building both as around 200L ported. So, you don’t think I’ll run into any issues running the two like that? I could probably adjust the vent in each to suit, but I’d want them to be identically sized.

[satx]

I checked my WinISD files and I it lists the new specs. I definitely bought the sub before 2018 though, so maybe I reentered them at some point.

But, I have a second question if anyone’s interested in giving their opinion. Im debating between two options:

1)two ported RSS390HF in the front of the room where my media console currently sits. It’s basically empty as all my gear is wired in a closet.

2) 2 sealed RSS390HO in about 45L each and eq the bottom end. They would be placed on the side of the existing console where my mains are and I’d break down my existing floor standers and redesign them to sit on the subs.

the only place I can put my current subwoofer puts the listening position in a bass hole. It literally seems to be the worst placement for the room. And it looks like crap where it’s at. Room Sim shows that two separated subs on on the front wall actually has very even response across all seating positions. Better even than two along the side walls.

My only concern is that option 2 wouldn’t have the output I want. With an LT to 25Hz each sub has a max output of about 107db in WinISD at 600W. Option 2 would have more than I need, no doubt, but that’s OK. How much is enough is the question? I don’t listen particularly loud, but I can on occasion. It’s a 5.4.1 system at the moment.

The room is 18’x11.5’x8’ with two open doors to the rest of the house. One door can be closed. Slab on grade with carpet. Everything’s on the long wall.

I have an Inuke 3000dsp. A Crown XLS1500. A free Minidsp 2x4HD. And NAD T758V3i. And the mains run from nCore 500mp monos.

I’ve consider and modeled just about every reasonably priced drivers and I’ve basically narrowed it down to these two. Others in the running are 390HE and Stereo Integrity SQL 12 or 15” but the two 15’s prefer a bit larger boxes ideally.

So again, the question is would the eq’d HO’s be enough for my room? Or just build the HF’s and be able to blow the windows out? FYI, my wife prefers the smaller enclosures of course, but it’s not up to her lol! It’s a dedicated music, tv and movie room.

All opinions and suggestions welcome.

[ESean]

I think where you place the subs in the room is going to be far more important than which driver you pick, the box tuning or the EQ applied. Don't put too much faith in modeling based on theoretical room response or design a box for a specific location (like under the mains) either. Give yourself the flexibility to try different locations to find what works in YOUR room.

[satx]

I think where you place the subs in the room is going to be far more important than which driver you pick, the box tuning or the EQ applied. Don't put too much faith in modeling based on theoretical room response or design a box for a specific location (like under the mains) either. Give yourself the flexibility to try different locations to find what works in YOUR room.

I hear you and agree and something I need to keep in mind. Problem is, in my room there are very few possible locations.

Here’s a quick sketch of my room and seating. The rectangle with”x” on the right is the current sub. Two squares with “x” opposite the couch are my main speaker locations. And the couch is about 13’ long to give you a sense of scale

[johnnyrichards]

Just build them to produce as low as possible and use something like Audysee to take care of the heavy hitting.

[satx]

Just build them to produce as low as possible and use something like Audysee to take care of the heavy hitting.

Thanks, I’m only worried about enough output once I eq the HO’s that low. They’d need a lot of boost. I have a hard time equating modeling spl to what’s required in a real room.

I think I can use the model of my own sub and measurements in the proposed locations to give me a pretty good idea though. I was just hoping someone would give me an easy answer I guess.