Virage - let's play with some expensive drivers

[Paul Carmody]

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/virage

Been playing with this one for a long time. Time to take it out in public.

[AdrianD]

Exciting! two formats for the same design!?

[isaeagle4031]

Very cool Paul Hope to hear them soon!

[johnny5jz]

I loved your Amigas, but found myself over extending that RS180 woofer in my room. This speaker would fix that problem for sure in larger rooms.

[a4eaudio]

Wow, wasn't expecting that driver combo! Excellent!!

[Steve Lee]

I really enjoyed the write-up.
Especially that part where Paul was sort of complaining about not finding any bad X-Over points . . . HA!

[fpitas]

So I had to actually kind of give myself a pep talk to push myself past that point of just "good." "Self," I thought, "These are really damn expensive drivers. You ought to be able to get something out of them that's better than just 'good.' You know that 'holographic' imaging and soundstage you love? You need to make these drivers do that."​

That's the danger of playing with expensive drivers!

[Paul Carmody]

Eek! So much pressure!

[fpitas]

Right? I designed in expensive drivers (SEAS W18s with the magnesium cones) back when I was a noob. Eventually I got them to sound "right", but it was a long, humbling experience.

[nigelb]

Looks fantastic!
How would you describe the off axis listening, does it drop off a lot over 15 deg?
I presume the floorstander cabinet depth, not called out in the dwg is the same as the Amiga at 11"?

[ernperkins]

And of course, the obligatory question: how do these compare to the Carreras?
​

[craigk]

Good question

[dld]

gonna have to have a carrera vs virage shootout here. gimme a couple, three weeks.

[Paul Carmody]

And of course, the obligatory question: how do these compare to the Carreras?
​

Hmm, a worth while question.

The bass on the Virage extends lower, obviously. Although both drivers have outstanding--if not untouchable --bass response for their size.

I think the Carrera still has better midrange, and I'm sure there's a physics -based reason why a 5" woofer delivers more even FR through the 600--2000 Hz range than a 7" does, but I'm not a physicist. So I'll leave that open to conjecture for now.

The treble is no clear winner. The Carrera had greater pinpoint imaging, but the Virage has a wider sound stage.

[Operandi]

End game two-ways are always appealing to me for some reason, and those are some very sexy drivers so this is pretty temping but not in for foreseeable future but its going on the list. I remember Erin's Audio Corner reviewing that woofer and getting some very impressive results so its good to see it put to good use. I think Erin tested it as part of Purifi kit but he really didn't care for the tweeter they used.

One question thats always in the back of my mind with designs like this is is there a electronics barrier of entry with this? I have a Pioneer Elite A9 from the mid-late 00s, thinking of upgrade to a Schitt Freya, and maybe a Bifrost (not sure on amp). And if I listen to mostly modern pop / rock should I even bother? I know a lot of modern stuff isn't going to sound on anything really particularly highly compressed and poorly mixed rock but I'm discovering that modern pop and electronic and sound pretty impressive and scale pretty well on high-end stuff.

[Paul Carmody]

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One question thats always in the back of my mind with designs like this is is there a electronics barrier of entry with this? I have a Pioneer Elite A9 from the mid-late 00s, thinking of upgrade to a Schitt Freya, and maybe a Bifrost (not sure on amp). And if I listen to mostly modern pop / rock should I even bother? I know a lot of modern stuff isn't going to sound on anything really particularly highly compressed and poorly mixed rock but I'm discovering that modern pop and electronic and sound pretty impressive and scale pretty well on high-end stuff.

I'm not much of a gear snob. I'm usually happy with upper mid-fi stuff like NAD or Sony ES or the higher-end Marantz, Yamaha, etc. They are usually the best bang for the buck, and on their higher-end models they don't cheap out on parts. For DAC and front end I usually use Pro Audio stuff like Presonus or Focusrite or the like. Again, best bang for the buck.
Could I go higher, sure. But the other thing I like about the Mid Fi and Pro Audio stuff is that it's usually built to take abuse, unlike boutique audiophile gear, which can be delicate and fussy. YMMV

[981CS]

Always wanted to build the Carreras but now I'm torn...

Also love that the Virage don't dip lower than a 5 ohm load. Us vintage receiver/amp folks appreciate that.