Clear Finish...

[DanW]

Tom, I've recently done a few furniture projects with the miniwax water based polycrylic, mainly due to local availability at Lowes. Goes on milky, it self levels well, needs more dry time between coats than directions state. I ran into a cloudy finish when I applied the next coat too early. This particular finish is nowhere near as scratch resilient as an oil based poly. The live edge cherry bench in our living room has not held up against our dog putting his front paws on it while watching wildlife. I'll grab a picture this evening.

No experience with other brands of water based finishes but I plan on trying something different the next time I need a clear finish.

[tomzarbo]

I forgot to mention how nice I think you did on the finish with this. And thanks for the info sir!

Adam below may be on to something... My in-laws visited our house several years back with a rowdy dog with nails and it dented our solid oak floors that had survived 24 previous years with no scratches at all. I don't know if a good really thick coat of old-school oil poly would have prevented it, but I kind of doubt it.

TomZ

[tomzarbo]

Thanks again guys for the guidance.

I picked up some Varathane (Minwax) water based stuff at Home Depot for around $25 and a quart of General Finishes Dead Flat waterbased poly, that was around $45.

I'll give both of them a test run on a scrap piece of the Oak and see how they do.

TomZ

[Adam_M]

Tom, I've recently done a few furniture projects with the miniwax water based polycrylic, mainly due to local availability at Lowes. Goes on milky, it self levels well, needs more dry time between coats than directions state. I ran into a cloudy finish when I applied the next coat too early. This particular finish is nowhere near as scratch resilient as an oil based poly. The live edge cherry bench in our living room has not held up against our dog putting his front paws on it while watching wildlife. I'll grab a picture this evening.

No experience with other brands of water based finishes but I plan on trying something different the next time I need a clear finish.

I see what you are going for with the picture, but from what it looks like, that wasn't a failure of the finish, - looks like the wood just dented and the finish moved with the wood. Cherry is pretty soft and I've had similar issues - I had a live edge counter in one of my kitchens and it definitely had some dings.

Pictures on the internet are tough to diagnose, so perhaps there is finish damage in addition to the wood being dented.

[tomzarbo]

It's looking like General Finishes for the win. The Minwax verithane looks nice and clear as well, but the GF goes on smoother and looks just a touch nicer in my opinion.

The bottom piece is raw white oak veneer.

Thanks everyone for your input, I looked into all suggestions.

TomZ

[Paul K.]

Talk about reading someone's mind which you apparently can do! I was wondering how your experiment was going and had planned to ask you about it in this thread today.
Paul

[a4eaudio]

It's looking like General Finishes for the win. ... the GF goes on smoother and looks just a touch nicer in my opinion.

Thanks for this. I have heard good things about General Finishes over the years and am going to try in on my next build.

[DrewsBrews]

I've used Varathane Satin water based poly exclusively, Though I also used some of the floor version on my kitchen countertops in hopes it might be tougher.

I use a Wagner hvlp spray rig (Control Spray MAX). The Varathane is thin so shouldn't need watering down, but runs easily if thicker than a misting coat is applied. If sufficiently light coat and the temps are right can recoat in a half hour or so. Spray method gives an awesome finish if you do many coats with block sanding between every few coats. Water based barely smells and is super easy on cleanup (just rinse with water). I've had mediocre results brushing on any finish... This stuff is no exception.

Only issue I've had is don't get rubbing alcohol on it. It will turn super white. A magic eraser will get rid of it with some elbow grease, but it is basically no different than sanding with a super fine grit... leaving a matte finish behind. It is definitely not as tough as oil based poly.. but I don't see that being much of an issue with speakers.

General Finishes stuff is closer to a pro grade so I wouldn't be surprised if it is superior.

[tomzarbo]

Good to know! I don't spray (yet) so I'm going to have to be careful on the vertical surfaces. This stuff is WATERY!

[tomzarbo]

I have a cheap Harbor Freight spray setup, but have not had the courage to get it going yet. I know I'm going to have to be careful when I apply it, it's SUPER runny stuff. Yeah, I expect GF should be a bit tougher for the extra 20 dollars per quart. At least I hope so.
I commented earlier on your post but the internet ate it I guess.

[tomzarbo]

Wow, I didn't realize how that pic looked on my computer vs. my phone. I don't want to lead anyone astray... In reality, the difference between the Varathane (Left) and the General Finishes (Middle) are much less than that pic would suggest. I took that in my basement under fluorescent lights, so maybe that's to blame? In that pic the middle GF also looks more amber in comparison to the bottom unfinished piece.

I should retake these pics and post again in natural sunlight. They're not wrong, I just think the "Amberness" of the finished pieces is a bit exaggerated. Let me redo this tonight.

I'm still going with GF though. : )

I should be finishing my portion of this collaboration project with Toid's DIY Audio maybe by this weekend, so hopefully there will be an interesting (and vintage-based) speaker project to see inside a month or so.

TomZ

[tomzarbo]

I forgot to mention that the Minwax Varathane was the only one of the three that didn't mention sanding between coats, unless I'm missing it on the back of the can, which is possible.
The other two I hit with 220 or 320? Can't remember, anyway, I sanded very lightly between coats, I applied only two coats also.

TomZ

[tomzarbo]

Here is a better pic, or at least a pic in sunlight. Although a bit darker overall, this is probably a bit more realistic color-wise.



Hope this helps someone. Again, thank you all for the suggestions. I know I can count on you guys to give me some good direction and advice.

TomZ

[tomzarbo]

Here is a better pic, or at least a pic in sunlight. Although a bit darker overall, this is probably a bit more realistic color-wise.



Hope this helps someone. Again, thank you all for the suggestions. I know I can count on you guys to give me some good direction and advice.

TomZ

[Chris Roemer]

Thanks Tom.




Thanks Tom.

[tomzarbo]

I see what you did there.
That second post didn't show up for me until a few days later if you can believe it.

[tomzarbo]

Here is a shot of the cabinets with the finish applied. 4 coats of General Finished Dead Flat High Performance water-based poly.



I love the look, it's pretty dang close to indistinguishable from the raw oak veneer... But upon a closer look, you can tell it is protected somewhat. It was a pleasure to apply, and with the $12 dollar synthetic brush I used -- was easy to keep smooth and run-free. I found it pretty easy to do actually. I wonder if the high-gloss version of this would have "applied" any differently. Dunno.

I am nearly done with these and in a few days I plan to send this pair to Nick from Toids DIY audio YouTube channel for him to 'finish' them off. Stay tuned for a video coming from me, and one from him in the next month or so.

If you're wondering why it's hard to get a bead on what size/shape the speaker actually is, that's by design. I don't want to give it away as it's a bit special to me for reasons that will become apparent if you watch the video when it comes out.

Anyway, I love how it came out finish wise... thank you for the input everyone!

TomZ

[DrewsBrews]

Glad to hear you like it!

Since the water based stuff is so thin it requires thinner coats and thus more coats. Usually sanding is not really needed on quick successive coats. Only once it has dried overnight since it won't want to stick.

Though doing multiple coats without sanding between starts to get kind of "globy" looking. I suspect this is due to surface tension bubble effect that gets amplified over successive coats. So it needs a good block sanding to get it flat again before another few coats. After a few rounds it will be flat and thick enough to do a final coat after the last sanding. With enough coats/sanding you can get a surface that is extremely flat with only light grain marks. That along with using satin finish really throws you brain into wondering if it is real wood since it is so realistic looking, or if it is laminate because it is so flat looking.

I don't mess with gloss.. It is enough just to get a real good looking satin finish, which I prefer anyway. Gloss takes a level of perfection that I just don't have in me. Juice aint worth the squeeze IMO.

[JimHRB]

FWIW Varatane is a Rustoleum product, not Minwax. The Miniwax water based polyurethane product is called Polycrylic. Home Depot stopped selling Minwax products a few years ago and replaced them with Varathane products. Lowes and Ace carry Minwax products.

[a4eaudio]

Yeah, there are a small number of companies making most paints and stains.

Varathane is Rust-Oleum which is owned by RPM. Minwax, Krylon, etc are Sherwin Williams. The other big one is PPG.