Hey John *Zaph*!!

[mike1234]

I love your website... great info!! Are you ever gonna test the new TB's?? The 3" dome and the new woofers look -- v-e-r-y -- i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g --

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Hey Mike !!

If you want it tested you buy one or two, submit it/them for testing, and wait until Zaph has enough time and enough other items in that size/catagory to justify setting up the jig for testing them.

As for "-- v-e-r-y -- i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g --" . . . well . . . maybe sort of. As with any driver that size you'll want to get off it around 3kHz into something like a D26 or a ND20 (or a little ribbon if that's your fetish), just as you would with a RS52 or a RS100 (half the price). On the low end it probably goes a bit lower than the RS52, although not by much, and nowhere near as low as the RS100. You'd use it with the same mid-bass as a RS52, only changing the crossover by maybe 100-200 Hz. The RS100 opens the possibility of crossing straight to a subwoofer style driver (like the RSS series), which actually *is* "interesting". Any of them would do fine with a RS225.

So . . . modestly interesting, maybe. At half the price . . .

[AJ]

Re: Hey John *Zaph*!!

The RS100 wouldn't be too useful in a three way with its low sensitivity, unless you went active, but why have a massive speaker thats also inefficient?.

[Deward Hastings]

the sensitivity

of the RS100 isn't all that out of line if you consider baffle step correction, which eats up 4-6 dB of the "extra" sensitivity of a 86-87 dB woofer. You just have to size the enclosure and pick the crossover frequency such that all the bsc come out of the woofer . . .

[AJ]

Re: Hey John *Zaph*!!

Which means you're still not going to get the crossover point much below 500-600hz, so might as well use the RS52. The RS52 has ridiculously low distortion numbers and a near perfect responce on and off axis so theirs little reason not to use it, unless you really want a cone mid.

[christianb]

Re: Hey John *Zaph*!!

Which means you're still not going to get the crossover point much below 500-600hz, so might as well use the RS52. The RS52 has ridiculously low distortion numbers and a near perfect responce on and off axis so theirs little reason not to use it, unless you really want a cone mid.

I concur.

[Deward Hastings]

lower than that . . .

If you're using a 12" woofer the baffle is going to be 14-15 inches wide, and the baffle step will be around 300 Hz. Neither of the domes will go that low, but the RS100 will . . .

The RS52 does have very low distortion . . . the problem is finding a large woofer that has low distortion up to 700 Hz to match it. Most designs seem to end up doubling up (or quadrupling) 6 1/2 inch drivers to get the surface area, but it's still hard to match the x-max and total displacement of a good 12 inch.

[AJ]

Re: lower than that . . .

If you're using a 12" woofer the baffle is going to be 14-15 inches wide, and the baffle step will be around 300 Hz. Neither of the domes will go that low, but the RS100 will . . .

The RS52 does have very low distortion . . . the problem is finding a large woofer that has low distortion up to 700 Hz to match it. Most designs seem to end up doubling up (or quadrupling) 6 1/2 inch drivers to get the surface area, but it's still hard to match the x-max and total displacement of a good 12 inch.

A pair of RS225 which are okay to 800hz, or any good pair of 8"s will match a single 12". At least, a 12" that would cross at 300hz. I don't know of any subs that would have low enough THD and a smooth frequency response to cross that high.

[Zero the Hero]

Re: Hey John *Zaph*!!

Is this a stupid question, why not use 2 RS100's?

[Deward Hastings]

good "sub" driver

The RSS315HF does respectably well up to 300 Hz. The HiVi M12 is another candidate. And of course there are lots of 10 inch drivers to consider too.

Big box speakers with a 12 inch woofer, a mid and a tweeter may not be in fashion these days, but they've been around for a long time, and benefit from the newer drivers just as much as any other design does. We tend to dismiss them now because the advent of HT and the "sub-woofer" has all but eliminated the true "full range" speaker in favor of "monitors" and mtm boxes with 6-7 inch mids. But "fashion" doesn't mean it's not possible to build a good old fashioned three way around a RS100 covering 300-3000 Hz.

[AJ]

Re: good "sub" driver

The RSS315HF does respectably well up to 300 Hz. The HiVi M12 is another candidate. And of course there are lots of 10 inch drivers to consider too.

Big box speakers with a 12 inch woofer, a mid and a tweeter may not be in fashion these days, but they've been around for a long time, and benefit from the newer drivers just as much as any other design does. We tend to dismiss them now because the advent of HT and the "sub-woofer" has all but eliminated the true "full range" speaker in favor of "monitors" and mtm boxes with 6-7 inch mids. But "fashion" doesn't mean it's not possible to build a good old fashioned three way around a RS100 covering 300-3000 Hz.

Of course Deward, anything is possible. I just throw out my opinions. At the end of the day, does it matter which mid you used as long as the speaker as a whole sounds good? Hell no.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: good "sub" driver

Of course Deward, anything is possible. I just throw out my opinions. At the end of the day, does it matter which mid you used as long as the speaker as a whole sounds good? Hell no.

AESpeakers new 12" woofer easily crosses at 800Hz. And depending on XO slopes, the RS52 can go as low as 500/600 without a problem. You'd also have a fairly sensitive system as a result, as opposed to one using a single RS100.

Still, an RSS315, RS100, RS28 system would be pretty nice for sure. You'd need a 250W amp at a minimum though. And asking the RS100 to cover that range at SPL levels to keep up with the RSS315 would be a stretch, thermally speaking. A pair of them, MTMW style would probably be a better bet.

[Deward Hastings]

it's not like

it hasn't been done before . . .

The Thiel 3.6, for example, used an only slightly larger (4 1/2 inch) cone midrange (built on a Vifa PL11 frame). It used a 10 inch woofer (not a 12), but since it "featured" first order crossovers the woofer had to reach significantly higher than would a 12 inch behind a LR4.

Not that I'd particularly advise building a big full range around a RS100, but the OP was asking about 3" domes . . . in that context the question becomes "what does a 3" dome bring to the table", and my answer, basically, was "less low end extension than a RS100, and not enough more than a RS52 (at half the price) to matter".

The RS52 is a great driver, but it poses a problem filling in under it. Your DA-175 towers is one way . . . a single 6 1/2 plus a sub (making a four-way) is another. Yet another option would be one or two RS225.

The RS100 just asks different things of the driver used under it.

There are far more choices (options) when building speakers in boxes than there are when building dipoles, for example, but the basic reality remains that driver choices are a "package deal" where each choice influences, and sometimes necessarily changes, the choice of other drivers in the system. There are lots of ways to build speakers-in-a-box . . .

[shawn_a]

Re: good "sub" driver

But "fashion" doesn't mean it's not possible to build a good old fashioned three way around a RS100 covering 300-3000 Hz.

Oh how true. How so very true. You didn't happen to spy in on my drawing session in my office today, did you? I thought I was alone....

shawn

[Wolf]

Re: it's not like

but the OP was asking about 3" domes . . . in that context the question becomes "what does a 3" dome bring to the table", and my answer, basically, was "less low end extension than a RS100, and not enough more than a RS52 (at half the price) to matter".

The problem with this, is that they are only 2" domes, not 3". To get a 3" dome, you'd need an ATC, the LARGER TB 3", Dyn D76AF, or Vifa 3"- etc.

I don't know of any others out there than these.
Later,
Wolf