Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

    I'm wondering if anyone here knows if there is any way to coat older paper cone woofers and sqeeze more detail from them without adding a lot of weight and making them sound worse ?? If yes, what resin or other coating should be applied, and in what thickness/manner? Thanks for any suggestions you may make! gdb

  • #2
    Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

    pe sells a rubber coating. try it as thin as you can. do not do it on a cone you love try it on one that can be tossed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

      Originally posted by gdb View Post
      I'm wondering if anyone here knows if there is any way to coat older paper cone woofers and sqeeze more detail from them without adding a lot of weight and making them sound worse ?? If yes, what resin or other coating should be applied, and in what thickness/manner? Thanks for any suggestions you may make! gdb
      Back when coated paper cones were everywhere, I picked up some of the coating that a few manufacturers were using on their's. It was simply a PVA (Poly Vinyl Acetate) white fluid, which is, incidentally, the same thing white Elmer's glue is made of. This was a bit thinner than Elmers, and I still have some around and it and still works well. Try this on some scrap paper first to test, but take some white Elmers, thin it a little with water, brush it one the paper and let it dry. It should produce a clear shiny "plasticized" coating. If you like it, then use in the cone. But, I would test it first to be sure that's what you want.

      Jeff
      Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

        Originally posted by philiparcario View Post
        pe sells a rubber coating. try it as thin as you can. do not do it on a cone you love try it on one that can be tossed.
        I would not recommend it as is. If it were cut thinner, maybe. It appears to be what is used for surround impedance mismatch correction. The extra weight without cutting it is very likely to alter the T/S parameters quite a bit if the entire cone is treated.

        dlr
        WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

        Dave's Speaker Pages

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

          I've used future floor wax, it makes the cone very stiff and is very light.
          You can brush it on or use a pump sprayer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

            I've used thinned-down rubber cement with OK results. Just be careful near the foam surround--the solvent may eat the foam.

            GE clear silicone is another option. It must be rubbed on and spread very thin. It can also be thinned with strong acetic acid, available from photographers' supply shops, but that's some nasty smelly stuff to work with.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

              Jeff B. names what is likely the most common material used for coating diaphragms. There is the same material (pva) called "puzzle coat" available in many store's crafts section. It is marketed to those wanting to save an assembled jigsaw puzzle for display.

              There is another material that is gaining some favor. It is being used in a treatment regimen called "EnABL". This is an acronym for Enhanced Acoustic Boundary Layer. The material is MI-4 Gloss Coat and is made by MicroScale Industries for the scale modeling crowd. A kit for the EnABL treatment is available here:

              http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

              Details are included in the thread. If you go to diyAudio, check out BudP & planet10's links and do a search of "enabl". There is enough to keep you busy through several evenings of reading.

              Another material type to consider is a varnish called "Damar". A search for that will provide plenty to consider as well.
              Mongo only pawn in game of life
              ____
              Ed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                Ed has pretty much spelled out the best options, however maybe I can provide some finer detail. "Puzzlecoat" is the no longer available brand name that Dave (Planet 10) used initially, the equivalent and available brand that is used today is Modpodge. I personally like the gloss variety, for it's looks on a black paper cone. However, if your cones aren't a deep black color you can always add ink to the first coat (or maybe just brush it on the cone 100% and let dry) followed by a second coat. The Puzzlecoat is applied in a thin, even coating using a small artist's brush and allowed to dry between coats.

                The enable option is an open question, and since there has been enough "flak" about it on this forum, I won't bother to expand on it.

                Dammar is another cone damping option. It is actually a thin, clear varnish that is used to protect and seal the oil paints on pictures (as on oil paintings by artists). It tends to dry a little harder than Puzzlecoat, so the effects are a little different tone-wise, but can be used for multiple coats without adding quite as much mass.

                I've also used latex wallpaper border adhesive on several speakers as well, but it's thick out of the can, so caution is needed to prevent applying too much. I can tell you that it improved the FR of a pair of Radio Shack Minimus 7's that I modified some years ago. I had Dan Wiggins measure (using Praxis) them against a second "stock" pair I had and it wasn't a subtle change for the better.

                In all this I'd also recommend experimentation before applying to your "good" speaker cones. In my case I used Mr. Coffee filters taped to the inside of margarine tubs to simulate the cone and varied the application technique and numbers of coats to arrive at an acceptable methodology. At one point, I had about 14 filter/tubs on the table for testing the variables involved. Very instructive to say the least, especially as I used an electronic Postal Scale to determine the change in "mass."

                I'm not as smart as many here, and I can't hear theory... so I'm condemned to just seeing and hearing the actual results for myself.

                Best Regards,
                TerryO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                  Originally posted by gdb View Post
                  I'm wondering if anyone here knows if there is any way to coat older paper cone woofers and sqeeze more detail from them without adding a lot of weight and making them sound worse ?? If yes, what resin or other coating should be applied, and in what thickness/manner? Thanks for any suggestions you may make! gdb
                  I think the main thing to be aware of is that any coating you put on the driver will change the sound somehow, but how it will be changed is anyones guess. I promise one of these things will happen:

                  1. You will hear no difference
                  2. Your driver will sound better than before
                  3. Your driver will sound worse than before
                  4. Your driver will sound different, no better no worse, just different
                  5. Your driver will suddenly burst into flames

                  OK, so maybe the last one won't happen, but unless these are cheap drivers you don't care about then you need to consider that while there is a chance you will make them sound better, it is more likely that you won't.

                  Regards,

                  Dennis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                    Originally posted by djarchow View Post
                    I think the main thing to be aware of is that any coating you put on the driver will change the sound somehow, but how it will be changed is anyones guess. I promise one of these things will happen:

                    1. You will hear no difference
                    2. Your driver will sound better than before
                    3. Your driver will sound worse than before
                    4. Your driver will sound different, no better no worse, just different
                    5. Your driver will suddenly burst into flames

                    OK, so maybe the last one won't happen, but unless these are cheap drivers you don't care about then you need to consider that while there is a chance you will make them sound better, it is more likely that you won't.

                    Regards,

                    Dennis
                    Dennis,

                    I agree with all you said, except for the last statement ("it is more likely that you won't") which is a bit of an all-encompassing generalization. It is possible to overdo it and that's a fact, but I've spent enough time with driver designers and OEMs to know that there is nearly always room for improvement... provided that you're careful and methodical.
                    I would however, advise against modifying any driver that is so rare (or expensive!) that it can't be easily replaced. If a $25 driver is your idea of an expensive driver (I fall into this category myself :D), then R&D is called for, but it's a great deal of fun anyway and up here in the rainy Pacific NW it's cheaper than spending time in the Tavern.

                    Best Regards,
                    TerryO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                      Hi, thanks for the advice offered by all! The cones are on late1970s vintage Advent 10" woofers that have been idle since the mid 80s due to rotted foams, "This is only a test" I remember them as lacking some definition, but that could be due to underpowering with a feeble receiver dictated by my low budget back then, I've got an extra unit (goodwill find) to sacrifice first, and since none of the drivers are operable now there's nothing much to lose anyway! My first question probably should have been about where to obtain the surround foams and which adhesive is best for sticking them. If I fail at clearing the re-foaming hurdle, the coating becomes a moot point. Does any place sell OEM or better, surrounds and adhesive? Thanks again!!! gdb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                        Originally posted by gdb View Post
                        Hi, thanks for the advice offered by all! The cones are on late1970s vintage Advent 10" woofers that have been idle since the mid 80s due to rotted foams, "This is only a test" I remember them as lacking some definition, but that could be due to underpowering with a feeble receiver dictated by my low budget back then, I've got an extra unit (goodwill find) to sacrifice first, and since none of the drivers are operable now there's nothing much to lose anyway! My first question probably should have been about where to obtain the surround foams and which adhesive is best for sticking them. If I fail at clearing the re-foaming hurdle, the coating becomes a moot point. Does any place sell OEM or better, surrounds and adhesive? Thanks again!!! gdb

                        gdb,
                        I don't know of any personally, however here's a google search results that may help. The Advent woofer was a good one, but a generic kit won't work IIRC. Find a company that has a specfic kit for your Advent woofer and don't take any substitutes.

                        Here Tiz....

                        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search

                        Good Luck and Best Regards,
                        TerryO

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                          I have used the coating from PE with good result. Not much change in sound but it will make an old cone look very nice. It also works as an under coating for other things you might like to try.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                            Originally posted by gdb View Post
                            Hi, thanks for the advice offered by all! The cones are on late1970s vintage Advent 10" woofers that have been idle since the mid 80s due to rotted foams, "This is only a test" I remember them as lacking some definition
                            That's the result of running a ten with a 19 Hz fs in a two way. As good as the Advents were in their day one can't expect miracles, and high definition midrange from the Advent ten would qualify as just that.
                            www.billfitzmaurice.com
                            www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Any way to add coating to paper cone woofers??

                              Originally posted by gdb View Post
                              Hi, thanks for the advice offered by all! The cones are on late1970s vintage Advent 10" woofers that have been idle since the mid 80s due to rotted foams, "This is only a test" I remember them as lacking some definition, but that could be due to underpowering with a feeble receiver dictated by my low budget back then, I've got an extra unit (goodwill find) to sacrifice first, and since none of the drivers are operable now there's nothing much to lose anyway! My first question probably should have been about where to obtain the surround foams and which adhesive is best for sticking them. If I fail at clearing the re-foaming hurdle, the coating becomes a moot point. Does any place sell OEM or better, surrounds and adhesive? Thanks again!!! gdb
                              gdb,
                              I saw this on another thread today. I usually like word-of-mouth recommendations and I think this is probably as high a recommendation as you'll find. Anyway, Here Tiz....

                              Wolf
                              Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005
                              Location: Indiana
                              Posts: 6,080
                              Blog Entries: 14

                              Sounds like OC...

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              "Orange County Speaker Repair" will do you right. You measure and order what fits exactly like the original surrounds. Be aware of the right glue to use for your unit as well. Some are better for different surfaces/materials.
                              Later,
                              Wolf

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X