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  • Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

    I've decided for my project that I want to build 4 MTM towers, plus an MMMTMMM center channel, using the Hi-Vi B3N and an as yet undecided tweeter.

    Towers:
    Using the online ISD at http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=newdriver with the specs for the B3N from http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/297-428z.txt (vas: 0.62 l, Qts: 0.9, Fs: 114.5 Hz) I get a required vented volume of 0.6183 cu. ft. for 2 drivers.

    A tower made of 0.75" at 5.5" x 7.5" x 48" gives an interior volume of 0.646 cu. ft. Am I correct in guessing that the extra volume (0.026 cu. ft.) could be successfully filled up by the drivers, crossover, bracing and damping, or is that too much or too little "wiggle room?"

    Center:

    I want to base this off of the Cynosure (http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...oject=Cynosure) but using the B3N (and same un-chosen tweeter) so it will match the towers.

    Using the same specs as above but for 6 drivers I get a required vented volume of 1.8555 cu. ft, while the original design plans using the Tang Band W3-926S state a required vented volume of 0.5 cu. ft. I realize these are different drivers with different specs, but that just doesn't seem right to me. A box with the original height and width (4" x 24") made of 1/2" would have to be 47.5" deep. Am I missing something?

    If someone with more experience would run over my numbers for the tower and center I'd be very appreciative.

    Also any tweeter suggestions would help too!

    Thanks a million!
    Last edited by jsalbre; 07-23-2008, 04:22 PM. Reason: corrected number of Ms for the center...
    Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

  • #2
    Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

    1) .6 cubic feet seems very large to me for two very small drivers.

    2) 1.8 cubic feet would be about right for your MMMTMMM center, if it's about .6 for two, (.6*3= about 1.8).

    3) You need to realize that with small drivers like those, your tweeter will be 1" at the max, most likely a 3/4" or a 5/8".

    I've heard these drivers in action, they are nice, but unless you have a small room, they're not going to do you much good...

    How about some more (as much as you can muster) info on your room, your project ideas, goals, and your system.

    Thanks

    Nick
    I'm just that guy. www.sru.edu Rock Solid.

    "It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion."

    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

      Originally posted by nick29498141 View Post
      1) .6 cubic feet seems very large to me for two very small drivers.

      2) 1.8 cubic feet would be about right for your MMMTMMM center, if it's about .6 for two, (.6*3= about 1.8).

      3) You need to realize that with small drivers like those, your tweeter will be 1" at the max, most likely a 3/4" or a 5/8".

      I've heard these drivers in action, they are nice, but unless you have a small room, they're not going to do you much good...

      How about some more (as much as you can muster) info on your room, your project ideas, goals, and your system.

      Thanks

      Nick
      Yes, .6 cu ft does sound large to me for 2 small drivers, that's why I was wondering if my numbers are off. If they aren't then 1.8 makes sense for 6 drivers, but when the original project called for a .5 cuft box with 6 drivers that even further made me think that my numbers don't work.

      A small 1" tweeter is fine with me as well. Anything low in price that is preferred around here?

      As for my room, it's probably the least acoustically ideal room you can find. The front wall has an opening to the hallway on the far right corner. The rear wall is only half the width of the room as the rest is open to the kitchen, and that wall is only a half wall anyway, with a pass through to the dining room. The right wall has an opening to the entryway and an inset wet bar in it. The left wall has a long fireplace and a pair of french doors going to the patio. The roof is slanted, 8ft high on the left side, about 15 ft on the right. I'll post up some pics later if I remember.

      As for my choice of drivers, I chose the B3N because they have great reviews, but mainly due to their attractive appearance (my wife and I both love the bronze look,) and the fact I can get them for $10 each, which means a lot when I'm going to need 14 drivers. If I built the entire system using the TANG BAND W3-926S from the Cynosure project I'm looking at another $120 for the set and I just don't think they look near as good as the B3N.

      I'll be driving these with a Sony STR-K750P that came from the DDW-750HT Home Theater in a Box, and using the 75W sub that came in the set. I will of course eventually replace these with a much better reciever and a sub that I build myself, but I don't have the cash on hand to do everything at once and I rate the quality of the included speakers lower than that of the receiver.

      My goal is really just to have something that sounds great, looks great, and I can stand back and say, "I made that."
      Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

        What's the length and width of the room?
        I'm just that guy. www.sru.edu Rock Solid.

        "It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion."

        L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

          Not sure off the top of my head, I'll grab some measurements and take the pics when I get home from work in about an hour.
          Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

            You might want to go the www.htguide.com/forum and search "Bose Buster". There was a pretty nice design done using the ND20 and the M3N that might save you a lot of time. I would link to it but our network nazi's have decided it is a malicious website and is blocked from our server. I can however provide you with the original measurement files if you decide you want to use those drivers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

              Nick:
              The room is 17 ft wide x 15.5 ft long. Ceiling it 8 ft at the low end and 11.5 ft at the high end. Pics are attached.

              David:
              I looked at the Bose Buster and it's an impressive build, but I don't like the more goldish color of the M3Ns, or the centered look of the drivers. I was aiming for something more like this:


              The tweeter in this diagram is the Audax TM025F1 as used in Dan Brown's db313 where much of my inspiration came from.
              Attached Files
              Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                jsalbre,

                I'm the last one to give any advice on this, but I ran your numbers thru WinSI, and here is what I got:

                With 2 B3Ns, .45-.6 f^3, 2 - ports 1 3/4"wx7.5"L
                With 3 B3Ns (3 - 3 in CC) - 1f^3, 2 - ports 1 1/2"wx6"l
                With 6 B3N - 2.0f^3, 2 ports 1 3/4"wx3 3/4"l

                Maybe this will help.

                I'm thinking of building a small tower & CC using B4Ns & B3Ns. So I would like to know how yours turn out.
                Ed
                ___________________________________________
                If "IFs" and "BUTs" were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas!
                _____________________________________________
                My WebSite

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                  Originally posted by davidroberts View Post
                  You might want to go the www.htguide.com/forum and search "Bose Buster". There was a pretty nice design done using the ND20 and the M3N that might save you a lot of time. I would link to it but our network nazi's have decided it is a malicious website and is blocked from our server. I can however provide you with the original measurement files if you decide you want to use those drivers.
                  I agree! The M3N is better than the B3N in quite a few ways, but more costly.

                  If he wants small, I have several designs that may suit his needs....
                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                    Here links to two Lou C designs using the HiVi B3N/S's and Dayton Neo tweeters:
                    http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/shtick/Shtick.html
                    http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/.../Periscope.htm

                    Curt C/Wayne W designs:
                    http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Scrappy.html
                    http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/Cinderella.html

                    The B3N/S are a higher Q driver. Box model programs may suggest a very large box for them. They also have rising distortion under 200hz (or so) and really don't need to be ported. I have an MTM with B3N's and ND20's in a small box, crossed at 150hz (when I use them). They sound pretty good, though you'll want at least four in each box for HT, maybe with stereo subs.


                    Good Luck

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                      Originally posted by jsalbre View Post
                      ... I just don't think they look near as good as the B3N.

                      I'll be driving these with a Sony STR-K750P that came from the DDW-750HT Home Theater in a Box, and using the 75W sub that came in the set. I will of course eventually replace these with a much better reciever and a sub that I build myself, but I don't have the cash on hand to do everything at once and I rate the quality of the included speakers lower than that of the receiver.

                      My goal is really just to have something that sounds great, looks great, and I can stand back and say, "I made that."
                      Having worked with the B3, I don't think it will work very well as a woofer in an HT main. I wouldn't run it below 250 hz. (It's $10 for a reason) It's really a better midrange driver, but a very inefficient one with limited bass ability.

                      You might see if you can find another budget design that meets your needs.
                      Lou's Speaker Site [speakers.lonesaguaro.com]
                      "Different" is objective, "better" is subjective. Taste is not a provable fact.
                      Where are you John Galt? I may not be worthy, but I'm ready.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                        I was considering doing the top part of the cinderella myself (leave out the woofer) then run stereo subs (8's maybe?). The result would be slim attractive speakers with a bit of compromise on distortion in the high bass area. Having 4 mids would definitely take some strain off those poor little drivers (as opposed to two in an mtm) and the resulting speaking is 8ohm nominal instead of 4 (easy to run on even the cheapest receiver).

                        Someone designed a mtm with the aura 3". That would have better low end extension if you were insistent on the mtm for the main, but again more money.

                        You could try the scrappy, but as other's have noted it won't do to well crossed low.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                          Ok, so what about changing to MMTMMs all the way around, similar to the top half of the Periscope and Cinderella, and making them 2.5 ways wired series-parallel? That'll let me get all 5 speakers back to 8 ohms, keeping my receiver happy and reduce distortion as well.

                          I'm really stuck on the B3N as it's by far the best looking 3" driver that I've seen and it has a very high WAF as opposed to the others I've looked at.

                          The Shtick, Cinderella and Periscope are great designs on their own, but I want to keep the entire thing thin, without a wide woofer hanging off the bottom.
                          Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                            Originally posted by jsalbre View Post
                            Ok, so what about changing to MMTMMs all the way around, similar to the top half of the Periscope and Cinderella, and making them 2.5 ways wired series-parallel? That'll let me get all 5 speakers back to 8 ohms, keeping my receiver happy and reduce distortion as well.

                            I'm really stuck on the B3N as it's by far the best looking 3" driver that I've seen and it has a very high WAF as opposed to the others I've looked at.

                            The Shtick, Cinderella and Periscope are great designs on their own, but I want to keep the entire thing thin, without a wide woofer hanging off the bottom.
                            Why not use the side version of the Cinderella?
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ght=Cinderella

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hi-Vi B3N MTM Towers and MMTMM Center

                              Originally posted by davidroberts View Post
                              Why not use the side version of the Cinderella?
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ght=Cinderella
                              Quite nice looking, and do fit the visual I'm going for, but if I'm going to have one or two stand alone subs why do I need a low range built into the towers?
                              Jeremy - http://alucinari.net

                              Comment

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