Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

[cmraguilar]

Hi All. I’m in need of some help in selecting some mids/highs for some speakers that are used in a Fraternity house. The old speakers took a jump of a 7’ high shelf after a night of playing some Jimmy Buffet for a beach theme party (not my idea but it was a decent time). The end results damaged the cabinet, horn and cross-overs. The woofers survived and still work great. They are 2 Eminence Kilomax Pro-18A 18" Cast Frame Driver (PN 290-434). I am going to use the woofers because they can handle more than enough power and are not cheap quality. The specs say not to be used with horns, but the sub chamber will be sealed off from the rest of the cabinet. I am planning on using a Behringer EP2500 to run the woofers. Also, I am planning on using an active x-over and run a 2nd amp for the mids/highs. Any suggestions for them would be appreciated. Size of the cabinet doesn’t matter too much and cost should be around $200 for the
mids/highs. The size of the room is maybe 20’ X 60’ and the speakers are placed firing out from the short wall. Any help is appreciated.

[wg_ski]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

"Not to be used with horns" = Don't put them in folded horn boxes, not don't use them with a horn HF driver. They won't sound very good in a 2-way with a horn (unless it's a very big very expensive one), but it won't hurt anything. Used in a *horn enclosure*, you'd end up blowing the drivers - but that's not what you're doing.

$200 isn't much of a budget for tops - but a 10"/1" using the Delta 10 and DH200 driver on the HM2525 horn will get close for a pair. It works. I use them for monitors. Another $125 or so for two more 10" to go MTM and you'd have enough to do it right. In any case, make the top boxes separate so you can get them above ear level while putting the subs stacked together in the corner.

[Wolf]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

"Not to be used with horns" = Don't put them in folded horn boxes, not don't use them with a horn HF driver. They won't sound very good in a 2-way with a horn (unless it's a very big very expensive one), but it won't hurt anything. Used in a *horn enclosure*, you'd end up blowing the drivers - but that's not what you're doing.

$200 isn't much of a budget for tops - but a 10"/1" using the Delta 10 and DH200 driver on the HM2525 horn will get close for a pair. It works. I use them for monitors. Another $125 or so for two more 10" to go MTM and you'd have enough to do it right. In any case, make the top boxes separate so you can get them above ear level while putting the subs stacked together in the corner.

Warren- I've often wondered *why* the Lowrider and Kilomax say not to be used in folded horns. Why is that, is it the parameters of the driver, the pressure on the diaphragms/cones, or what? They seem to work well in vented, so couldn't you just vent the back-volume?
I'm just curious,
Wolf

[Paul O]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

I also say those 18" drivers have no busines being overhead.. that's just a safety hazard. If these cabs are to be reused as is, please have them braced internally with metal brackets and hung properly(no that does not mean bungie cords or ratchet straps). This means closed eyelets into the metal bracing inside the cabs and aircraft cable that is anchored in structure via more closed eyelets.

These big woofers are useless at producing mid frequencies, so a 2-way mid/high will be needed. I suggest something like a DeltaPro 12 with Selenium DH200 or D210 in a seperate box overhead.. with the subs together on the ground. A refridgerator sized cabinet with both Kilo's in it in the corner will produce some impressive low end on a bridged EP2500.

[Taterworks]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

I concur. Those Kilo's belong on the floor, in some decent vented boxes tuned low and driven by a separate amp. Have you considered simply buying some basic two-way PA mains? Take a look at the Community MVP 12 -- a bit on the lightweight (and cheap) side for pro audio, but should fit the bill nicely here. Also check out the JBL JRX 112M carried by Parts Express. With subs, these ought to fill a room nicely for music.

If there's a reason not to put those Kilomax drivers in horns, it's probably because I've seen many Eminence 18's in folded B-52 horns with the cone torn in an annular fashion around the voice coil. They really need some kind of fiberglass reinforcement down there.

[wg_ski]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

Warren- I've often wondered *why* the Lowrider and Kilomax say not to be used in folded horns. Why is that, is it the parameters of the driver, the pressure on the diaphragms/cones, or what? They seem to work well in vented, so couldn't you just vent the back-volume?
I'm just curious,
Wolf

Venting the back chamber results in losses which reduce the efficiency gain you can get with a horn. So you settle for a little less efficiency and poorer loading. As a result, you get a cab that's excursion limited at fairly low power. "Scoop" bins are a prime example - frequency response looks good on paper, but power handling is awful. Back-loaded horns are common among the tube and single-driver crowd, but you can't go blasting them.

If you use the Lowrider sub in a horn enclosure that's proper for the driver's parameters, you'll end up ripping the cone to shreds due to the pressure before you even get objectionable distortion. You won't know *when* to turn it down until it's too late. With the Kilomax, the Qts is too high for a horn to begin with. And the vented heatsink would cause excessive mecahnical losses and even "whistling" even if it did have a higher EBP.

[wg_ski]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

If there's a reason not to put those Kilomax drivers in horns, it's probably because I've seen many Eminence 18's in folded B-52 horns with the cone torn in an annular fashion around the voice coil. They really need some kind of fiberglass reinforcement down there.

DJs seem to like the B52 horns because you can get them loud as he 11 with only a 200 watt amp. As long as you don't ever put more than 200 watts into them...

[kenmcculloch]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

May not be suited to horn loaded because of the .56qt which is pretty high for horn loading along with the 8 ohm impedance. Klipsch uses 4 ohm woofers with a qt of .39 or so in their applications.

[Paul O]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

Very few horn designs with 18" drivers actually horn load the the driver at all at typical subwoofer frequencies below 100hz. The CV earthquake is a prime example, it's sensitivity is no better than a single 18 reflex box below 100hz and it produces no output worth talking about below 50hz.. does that sound like a driver in a sealed box or what.:rolleyes: This also explains why DJs prefer running these things up to 200hz, that where the driver is horn loaded and produces better than average output.

As already mentoned, the stress placed on a driver cone when properly horn loaded are substantial, so building an 18" cone strong enough to withstand these stresses would also make it heavy, or expensive if carbon fiber, aluminum, or titanium were used. As well, packaging a horn with sufficient length and mouth area in anything smaller than forklift size is near impossible when starting with a larger driver.

[cmraguilar]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

Thanks all for the advice. So what would you guys suggest for a cross over for the mids/high?

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Mids/High suggestion for DJ speakers

Thanks all for the advice. So what would you guys suggest for a cross over for the mids/high?

From a KMax18? No higher than 500 Hz. To properly employ them they should be on the floor, used as sub-woofers, crossed to tops at 80 to 100Hz. 18s have no business being used in tops.