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  • Best sub 8in woofer/sub

    Still on the quest to find a 5-7in speaker that, with a reasonable enclosure and good port job (maybe dual reflex), could get some very usable LOW distortion output in the sub 50hz reigon (driver would only play from the bottom end to 100hz or so).

    Anyone have any suggestions? Might be best in a downfiring alignment. Is there any way to get decent SQ out of a bandpass alignment? I know it is always inferior, but instinct is telling me to get the quality anywhere decent there would have to be a TON of port area.

    I know what I want my first real contribution in terms of an original design to be, but this is what I am stuck on.

  • #2
    Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

    Bandpass isn't always inferior, just that most implementations are inferior. It seems the Reference 8" would fit the bill. Low distortion, high output, decent extension.
    Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

      If it must be less than 8", your options are thus:

      - Peerless 3.5" and 5.25" SDS mini-subwoofers with matching passive radiators (Madisound)

      - Peerless SLS 5.25" and 6.5" subwoofers (the 5.25" has an Fs of 47 Hz; Madisound)

      - Tang Band 5.25", 5.25" high-excursion, and 6.5" high-excursion subwoofers (PE)

      - Creative Sound Solutions SDX7 7" high-excursion bass driver with XBL^2 (CSS)

      The selection of competent woofers that perform well as mini-subs has definitely grown over the years that I've been a speaker enthusiast. This probably isn't an exhaustive list (6.5" subwoofers by JL Audio also come to mind for automotive use), but it'll get you going.
      Best Regards,

      Rory Buszka

      Taterworks Audio

      "The work of the individual still remains the spark which moves mankind ahead, even more than teamwork." - Igor I. Sikorsky

      If it works, but you don't know why it works, then you haven't done any engineering.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

        Originally posted by jdclark View Post
        Still on the quest to find a 5-7in speaker that, with a reasonable enclosure and good port job (maybe dual reflex), could get some very usable LOW distortion output in the sub 50hz reigon (driver would only play from the bottom end to 100hz or so).

        Anyone have any suggestions? Might be best in a downfiring alignment. Is there any way to get decent SQ out of a bandpass alignment? I know it is always inferior, but instinct is telling me to get the quality anywhere decent there would have to be a TON of port area.

        I know what I want my first real contribution in terms of an original design to be, but this is what I am stuck on.
        Real tough to beat these little guys for bass capability and stay under 7"

        http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-831



        http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-832


        The larger 6.5" version has a listed 13mm one-way travel, and from the listed parameters, will do sub 40Hz bass in a proper vented cabinet.
        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

          Originally posted by Taterworks View Post
          If it must be less than 8", your options are thus:

          - Peerless 3.5" and 5.25" SDS mini-subwoofers with matching passive radiators (Madisound)

          - Peerless SLS 5.25" and 6.5" subwoofers (the 5.25" has an Fs of 47 Hz; Madisound)

          - Tang Band 5.25", 5.25" high-excursion, and 6.5" high-excursion subwoofers (PE)

          - Creative Sound Solutions SDX7 7" high-excursion bass driver with XBL^2 (CSS)

          The selection of competent woofers that perform well as mini-subs has definitely grown over the years that I've been a speaker enthusiast. This probably isn't an exhaustive list (6.5" subwoofers by JL Audio also come to mind for automotive use), but it'll get you going.

          Thanks, that helps. JL had the 6w0 for a while, which was fairly good in a small package, but I think you can do better forr $80 a driver (they are discontinued). They have some newer ones as well, but the magnet assembly is HUGE if I remember correctly, as is the power requirement. The only other notable ones from car audio I can think of are too expensive (Focal 13KS is a beast, Focal 5WS would be perfect but discontinued and hard to find).

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

            Real tough to beat these little guys for bass capability and stay under 7"

            The larger 6.5" version has a listed 13mm one-way travel, and from the listed parameters, will do sub 40Hz bass in a proper vented cabinet.
            Pretty much identified those as my best options thus far.
            Havent messed with bandpass design before, but now I see why it isnt used much. The only way I have been able to simulate flat response in the 40-100hz range with the W5-1138SM in a single tuned band pass would require about 75cm of port length in about a 2.4liter section of the enclosure, lol.

            Looks like a normal vented enclosure is going to be best. But its still going to be a challenge to keep the volume down and have enough room for the long ports.
            How accurate is the Unibox minimum port diameter field? I dont want to risk any chuffing, but smaller does make things easier in terms of construction.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

              Originally posted by jdclark View Post
              Pretty much identified those as my best options thus far.
              Havent messed with bandpass design before, but now I see why it isnt used much. The only way I have been able to simulate flat response in the 40-100hz range with the W5-1138SM in a single tuned band pass would require about 75cm of port length in about a 2.4liter section of the enclosure, lol.

              Looks like a normal vented enclosure is going to be best. But its still going to be a challenge to keep the volume down and have enough room for the long ports.
              How accurate is the Unibox minimum port diameter field? I dont want to risk any chuffing, but smaller does make things easier in terms of construction.
              You could always opt for a passive radiator instead of a port. What box dimensions are you attempting to stay within? If you used one or two of these to tune your box, you'd not have to worry about port noise.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                The JL Audio 8W7 is really about 6" or so cone diameter. Does this count. :D

                Best current production 8" in existence that I know of, by a long shot. TC Sounds used to make a comparable one sold through SoundSplinter, but the woofer, like TC, is but a memory. The 8W7 can output roughly the same SPL vs, distortion of a a very high grade conventional 12" driver, such has a Dayton 12" HF or Infinity Kappa Perfect VQ 12". I am serious. It is an INCREDIBLE driver.

                -Chris

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                  Elemental Designs (edesignaudio.com) makes a 6.5" and 8" DVC subs. I use the 8 in a sealed box for the car. The 6.5" really pounds in a vented enclosure. Although they're are $75, they're well made and have strong motors making them good values.
                  - John

                  "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
                  www.BuildTheDream.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                    You could always opt for a passive radiator instead of a port. What box dimensions are you attempting to stay within? If you used one or two of these to tune your box, you'd not have to worry about port noise.
                    Liking it...a lot. But, these guys may help keep the boxes a little more on the slim side. I think 2 of them for the 5in TB sub or 3 for the 6.5in version would work faily well.... What do you think?

                    3.5inches.
                    Fs: 30hz
                    Qms: 10
                    Vas:3.2L
                    Cms: 092 mm/n
                    Mms: 32g
                    Sd: 48cm^2
                    Xmax: 5mm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                      Originally posted by WmAx View Post
                      The JL Audio 8W7 is really about 6" or so cone diameter. Does this count. :D

                      Best current production 8" in existence that I know of, by a long shot. TC Sounds used to make a comparable one sold through SoundSplinter, but the woofer, like TC, is but a memory. The 8W7 can output roughly the same SPL vs, distortion of a a very high grade conventional 12" driver, such has a Dayton 12" HF or Infinity Kappa Perfect VQ 12". I am serious. It is an INCREDIBLE driver.

                      -Chris
                      Thought they looked smaller than 8in...that explains it, lol.
                      It may work but they arnt cheap and still require a good bit of juice... Plus, I may be leaning towards a passive radiator setup, and the JL would be to much for most of the PR's im looking at.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                        Originally posted by jdclark View Post
                        Liking it...a lot. But, these guys may help keep the boxes a little more on the slim side. I think 2 of them for the 5in TB sub or 3 for the 6.5in version would work faily well.... What do you think?

                        3.5inches.
                        Fs: 30hz
                        Qms: 10
                        Vas:3.2L
                        Cms: 092 mm/n
                        Mms: 32g
                        Sd: 48cm^2
                        Xmax: 5mm
                        The 3.5" PR will not work with either driver. You'd need about 6 of them ($$$).

                        For the 5.25" TB, I used 2 of the Peerless 5.25" PR's for my "Triumph" design.

                        You would need a 10" SDVC PR to do the 6.5" justice. A pair of 8" does not bode well for extension or added mass.
                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                          Originally posted by jdclark View Post
                          Thought they looked smaller than 8in...that explains it, lol.
                          It may work but they arnt cheap and still require a good bit of juice... Plus, I may be leaning towards a passive radiator setup, and the JL would be to much for most of the PR's im looking at.
                          That's true, it would probably take two 12" PRs to work with no compression in the JL 8W7.

                          However, even in a sealed box, it will far outperform the Tang Band 6" used in a ported or PR system. In a 1 cubic foot sealed system, with about another cubic foot dedicated to a slot port, it will produce the output of a high quality ported 12" subwooofer in the literal sense, and with extremely low distortion too.

                          The 8W7 will run about $250 - $270 plus shipping at discount online retailers. It is for those that demand extraordinary performance from a comparatively small diameter.

                          -Chris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                            Originally posted by WmAx View Post
                            However, even in a sealed box, it will far outperform the Tang Band 6" used in a ported or PR system. In a 1 cubic foot sealed system, with about another cubic foot dedicated to a slot port, it will produce the output of a high quality ported 12" subwooofer in the literal sense, and with extremely low distortion too.
                            -Chris
                            Can the 8W7 achieve an F3 of 18.5 Hz when vented, in 2ft^3 or less? Un-EQ'd? and not breach Xmax at rated RMS power?

                            I really don't think it can do that.... W6-1139 *CAN* do that.
                            *snicker*,
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Best sub 8in woofer/sub

                              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                              Can the 8W7 achieve an F3 of 18.5 Hz when vented, in 2ft^3 or less? Un-EQ'd? and not breach Xmax at rated RMS power?

                              I really don't think it can do that.... W6-1139 *CAN* do that.
                              *snicker*,
                              Wolf
                              Actually, yes, and with around 3-4x higher linear output, though F3 at 18Hz would be F4, not F3, so you got me there by 1 dB difference in relative curve output.... though the response will have a shelf response and a slight 1 dB ripple at around tuning. I would target F3 around 23-25Hz personally with the 8W7.

                              Here are the T&S for actual current production run 8W7(I have tested 4 recent units from two different production runs and the numbers are within about 5 percent). Note that only about an hour or so of use for these units, so Fs, due to the stiff surround, will probably lower by a few more Hz on final measurements:

                              Measured Data
                              Fs: 39Hz
                              Qts: 0.671
                              Qms: 7.765
                              Qes: 0.734
                              Vas: 0.362 ft^3
                              Re: 2.78 Ohm
                              Le: 1.34 mH
                              BL: 10.39

                              Factory Supplied Data
                              Pe: 500 W
                              Xmax(linear):19.00

                              It should be noted that while JL claims these are 3 Ohms nominal, this is false. They are about 3.9 Ohms nominal. Any 4 Ohm stable amplifier will drive them with ease. But you really do need 400-500 watts RMS for this driver.

                              The power rating and xmax are also, to be noted, are very accurate, with power handling likely very conservative number. Mechanical limits of travel is somewhere in the one way 25-28 mm range based on my quick tests.

                              -Chris

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