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2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

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  • 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

    I have a pair of really decent sounding Morel 1075 ten inch woofers currently residing in my old Infinity Studio 100 monitors with a pair of Morel 29 tweeters and a LEAP xover .
    When they get eventually get moved into a new 2 cu. ft. cabinet in the future should they be matched with a midrange in a 3 way or is the 2 way with a ten the smarter way to go ?
    I don't see a lot of 10 inch 2 ways out and about and wondered why not . 8 inch woofers aren't quite big enough for the room or my tastes I guess .

    tx

  • #2
    Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

    Originally posted by kevinr View Post
    I have a pair of really decent sounding Morel 1075 ten inch woofers currently residing in my old Infinity Studio 100 monitors with a pair of Morel 29 tweeters and a LEAP xover .
    When they get eventually get moved into a new 2 cu. ft. cabinet in the future should they be matched with a midrange in a 3 way or is the 2 way with a ten the smarter way to go ?
    I don't see a lot of 10 inch 2 ways out and about and wondered why not . 8 inch woofers aren't quite big enough for the room or my tastes I guess .

    tx
    I am sure you can get a lot of good advice on this here. My understanding is that the acoustic output from the 10" woofer will become very directional above 1kHz while the tweeter will be omni-directional at the lower end of its frequency range, resulting in a non-uniform sound field in the x-over region.

    Louis

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    • #3
      Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

      Lots of pro stuff have 10'' 2 ways. Usually have a large horn.
      http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...3D140%26um%3D1


      http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
      No matter where you go, there you are.
      Website

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      • #4
        Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

        You might consider making a three-way with the tweeter and mid (RS52) from Zaph's ZDT3.5. This would get you down to a 850 Hz. crossover point.

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        • #5
          Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

          The Morel has a very "paper"-like sound, rather laid back. I think a Vifa midrange would fill the gap quite nicely. I've used the PL11 and it's a nice driver (although Zaph has measured average distortion performance.) The P13 would be the same vintage and sound very nice in there too. If you want a pair of MW164's, PM me. They're just sitting in my basement and I would make you a good deal (not the best speaker for the task but it would be brand homogeneous.)
          - John

          "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
          www.BuildTheDream.org

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          • #6
            Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

            Originally posted by HareBrained View Post
            The Morel has a very "paper"-like sound, rather laid back. I think a Vifa midrange would fill the gap quite nicely. I've used the PL11 and it's a nice driver (although Zaph has measured average distortion performance.) The P13 would be the same vintage and sound very nice in there too. If you want a pair of MW164's, PM me. They're just sitting in my basement and I would make you a good deal (not the best speaker for the task but it would be brand homogeneous.)
            ROT is to take SOS (13,500 ips) and divide by the actual cone diameter in inches (typically 8" for a 10" driver). So . . . 13,500 / 8 = 1688 Hz. If you ask a 10"er to operate in this range, it'll be down at least -3dB 15* off axis, and -6dB 30* off axis (the so-called "beaming"). If you've got a tweeter that's comfortable crossing down at 1.6k (not too many are), a two-way should work out OK. Otherwise add a midrange.

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            • #7
              Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

              IMP any speaker woofer 8" or greater should be 3-way or more. Bigger drivers just can't get the midrange detail needed for good sounding midrange.

              One of my pet peves is so many people just focus on the woofers and tweeters and forget about the midrange. I feel that a good midrange is most important driver, since most of the vocals and instuments is in that range.

              I think the best way to design a 3 -way speaker is a very broad midrange driver 2,500-3000 on the top 250-125 on the bottom. Design the system from the midrange up and down and not the woofer up. It just makes sense.

              Just look at any of the top systems the B&W's 800, 700, 600, CM series and the Paradigm signtiture. studio, monitor series I could go on, but I won't.


              Ed

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              • #8
                Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                http://home.indy.net/~gregdunn/dynac...ers/index.html
                The Dynaco A25 speakers used a 10" with a low crossed tweeter (both Seas drivers) I think they sound great for a commercial offering. They were able to find the perfect match of drivers to minimize the XO. There really is no reason to do this anymore in today's day and age.

                I think that I will second the midrange philosophy. Don't skimp on the mid. Find one with enough displacement to do the broad range 300-3khz without getting too large. Consider the beaming factor described earlier. I think a 5" driver usually fits the bill.

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                • #9
                  Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                  Originally posted by kevinr View Post
                  I don't see a lot of 10 inch 2 ways out and about and wondered why not . 8 inch woofers aren't quite big enough for the room or my tastes I guess .tx
                  Curt's Speaker Design Works

                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
                  - Aristotle

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                  • #10
                    Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                    One could also use one of the various full range 2",3" or 4" drivers as a mid-tweeter the push the cross point to 500-800. Some of the fullrangers can do a pretty good job in the higher freq. when you take the low freq. from its job duties.

                    ED

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                    • #11
                      Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                      Originally posted by stephed View Post
                      One could also use one of the various full range 2",3" or 4" drivers as a mid-tweeter the push the cross point to 500-800. Some of the fullrangers can do a pretty good job in the higher freq. when you take the low freq. from its job duties.

                      ED
                      This is exactly the design I've been playing around with for a set of computer/near-field speakers. I had considered using my MW164's as the woofer with a full range driver taking over at ~350Hz. But the MW wants a large sealed cabinet for not very good extension or power handling.

                      I'm still deciding on a FR-driver. I was hoping to hear better from Zaph on the Alpair 6 (see his blog). But it's substantial deviation from the manufacturer's specs has me still looking. I started the "Dual Chambers?" thread (it's how I'm going to house my woofer) and am talking about the possibilities. I think I'll start a FR-driver thread just so it's obvious.

                      There are many disadvantages to this type of set-up but if you've heard a good speaker without a xover, you'd understand my desires.
                      - John

                      "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
                      www.BuildTheDream.org

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                      • #12
                        Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                        Thank you senior members for chiming in with your informative comments . This junior member appreciates anything I can learn on this great forum .
                        There does seem to be a little beaming and the folks who provided the LEAP mentioned the tradeoffs at the crossover point between the 2 drivers .
                        I'm utilizing the Infinity boxes until I can design and build another pair of cabinets that I can stain to match my Mahogany wood A/V stand and TV table .
                        I wanted to stick with sealed cabinets instead of ported as one speaker is in my smallish ( 11 X 15 ) listening room corner next to the stereo tower with a wall next to it .
                        The Morel fit the CO diameter as did the 29 tweeter and the inside dimensions matched up to the woofer parameters . It sounds good and definitely better than the Cambridge Newton M85's I had been using on stands.
                        I started out looking to buy a used pair of Large Advents or Dynaco's but went with new drivers and xover instead.
                        Sounds like I may be adding a midrange or different tweeter that goes low in the next cabinets for these drivers.
                        Thanks for your advice and ideas

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                        • #13
                          Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                          One thing you should try to ascertain BEFORE choosing a mid driver is the sensitivity of the woofer. Some older 10" woofs had quite high sensitivity, and may require a reasonably sensitive mid to match to it.( around +2dB above the woof is usually workable)
                          You can pad the mid down to match the woof, but (imo) you should never pad a woof down to match a mid.
                          If people want to listen to wiggles, that up to them....

                          I prefer music.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                            A couple of thoughts/questions . I chose the Morel 1075 as it was recommended for sealed 2 c.ft. enclosure and was fairly sensitive .
                            I'm using a Jolida all tube integrated amp with music 2 channel and almost half mono recordings . Vinyl and Cd are the playback mediums , not TV/HT.
                            An old fashioned paper modest presentation kind of fits the needs , at least that was the plan anyway . I may go to a tweeter than crosses over lower than the Morel 29 model I went with . I think it's fs is 900.
                            Any suggestions for a tweeter to fit in as an upgrade ? I'd have to adjust the crossover .

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                            • #15
                              Re: 2 or 3 way with a ten inch woofer ?

                              Keep it all in the family!

                              Supreme ST1108: Spec. calls for a low end of Freq. Range to be 1,400 Hz (fs = 680 Hz)

                              http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=589

                              or

                              Supreme ST728, which has a smaller faceplate (for improved C-T-C spacing) but a higher Fs (800-Hz). Looks like output starts to drop off under 2,000 Hz. Maybe with the natural roll-off, a steeper acoustic slope can be achieved.

                              http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8527

                              Finally, maybe the small faceplate MDT22, with a Fs of 650-Hz. Odd cliff at 1,500-Hz though.

                              http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=566

                              One last suggestion, SEAS Prestige 27TBCD/GB-DXT (H1499) Tweeter. With the gain in low end output from the horn-loading, a 1.5-Hz X-Over may be possible. I think Zaph|Audio has a distortion profile.

                              http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8322

                              I would love to see the results of this 10" 2-Way.
                              Thanks,
                              Zach Tripp

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