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...so these are good router bits

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  • ...so these are good router bits

    I was cutting a little circle tonight with my jasper jig. I'd finished the first couple passes and noticed the a little too much noise, like I was taking a bit too deep of a pass. I stopped cutting and saw the bit was way down, it appears that the collet has vibrated loose and the bit was pulling out. The bit was cutting nearly 3/4" of MDF plus my 1/4 hardboard backer in one pass. When I lifted the work I found this:



    Wow that was close! After finishing a ton of cuts I was cleaning up and moved my hardboard backer and found this:



    Turns out I was starting to route a circle out of my table saw! The tip of the bit is still pin-prick sharp. Examination under an eyeloupe shows just a tiny little deformation but it still cuts like butter. Not bad!


  • #2
    Re: ...so these are good router bits

    I think you have a portable milling machine...

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    • #3
      Re: ...so these are good router bits

      I've done the same to my craftsman table...cheap aluminum I guess?
      "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

      http://www.diy-ny.com/

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      • #4
        Re: ...so these are good router bits

        Hmm, the John Cameron Swayze test for router bits..."Takes a Licking but Keeps on Ticking"

        BTW, what brand bit was that?
        Bill Schneider
        -+-+-+-+-
        www.afterness.com/audio

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        • #5
          Re: ...so these are good router bits

          I have had problems with "bit drops" a few times. Inspect your collet and collet bore for damage. Collets shoud be cleaned using a solvent or a special clean/lubricate product like Collet Care from precise bits(recomended). Replace collet or upgrade if damaged. In my case trashing a workpiece with expensive materials and much time expended is just not worth it.

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          • #6
            Re: ...so these are good router bits

            i guessing that was an alumium top , not a cast iron? Go buy some metal epoxy and fill that before you cut on the saw agin, just fill with epoxy then sand smooth.

            you know i dont have any issues with my bits movign in the CNC, but i make sure to really get them tight , as the idea of a 1/4" spiral bit doign 25k rpm flying at me from across the garage is not a fun thought
            Check out my website: www.uberstealthaudio.com.
            Now offering cnc cut baffles and other speaker cabinet parts

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            • #7
              Re: ...so these are good router bits

              Originally posted by nikbrewer View Post
              i guessing that was an alumium top , not a cast iron? Go buy some metal epoxy and fill that before you cut on the saw agin, just fill with epoxy then sand smooth.

              you know i dont have any issues with my bits movign in the CNC, but i make sure to really get them tight , as the idea of a 1/4" spiral bit doign 25k rpm flying at me from across the garage is not a fun thought
              Nik, It looks like it's cast iron, to me. I can safely say that it's possible....it happened to me, though not in that fashion. In my case, the depth stop on the plunge router vibrated loose...and as I kept increasing the depth of each cut....well, you get the picture. I cut a nice little groove in my tablesaw top which is cast iron. Bit was still sharp.....it was a Bosch up-spiral bit. I use JB weld to fill in the groove, then sanded smooth....you can hardly see the place where it happened. Since then, I have taken to using a work table I made for all my routering. The table top is plywood which can be filled and sanded much easier and can be replaced if damaged too badly.

              John
              If it doesn't fit right the first time, you obviously need to use a larger hammer. :p

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              • #8
                Re: ...so these are good router bits

                Originally posted by Face View Post
                I've done the same to my craftsman table...cheap aluminum I guess?
                No, that's a cast iron top.

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                • #9
                  Re: ...so these are good router bits

                  Geeze... You carve steel with your bit, and I've broken two of those on 5/8'ths Baltic Birch!! :eek:

                  Actually, it's got to be some kind of harmonic vibration that did mine in. I sometimes get incredibly loud shrieking sounds from the bit when I'm hole cutting.

                  First one, used for several holes, no problems... even before I learned that you AREN'T supposed to carve the whole 3/4" of MDF in one cut. Then, cutting some BB, it sounded a bit funny, stopped the cut, shut off and set the router down and found half the bit laying on the table after coming back in a few minutes. It had broken up in the collet, then fell out when it cooled off!!

                  Second one, new collet, first use, loud noises during driver hole cuts... taken 1/4" at a time with the Dewalt depth stepper... and on the last, deepest pass, it broke off while running. A few sparks, but no +200mph carbide bullet flying across the shop. (whew)

                  Got a third one, and it also makes loud shrieky noises in the first few inches of cut... I stopped. Got a basic, two flute carbide cutter, put it in, no funny noises, cut OK...

                  Seems like the birch sets up harmonic vibrations with all the area rubbing against the longer bit... maybe MDF doesn't do it so much. I'm pretty puzzled...

                  Maybe I need one of your special Steel cutting versions... (but it's the same brand, from what I can make out in the pic)

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                  • #10
                    Re: ...so these are good router bits

                    Mine is one of these, the solid carbides. Maybe try a HSS up spiral? I've read more than once that in certain situations they are better than carbide, they're cheap enough. I've also read that straight bits can be better too for circle jigs. Just gotta find what works nice for your setup I guess??? I've tried both in MDF and didn't notice a difference so I went with the up spiral to help clear the cut but thanks for the heads-up on BB!

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                    • #11
                      Re: ...so these are good router bits

                      Originally posted by jonpike View Post
                      Geeze... You carve steel with your bit, and I've broken two of those on 5/8'ths Baltic Birch!! :eek:

                      Actually, it's got to be some kind of harmonic vibration that did mine in. I sometimes get incredibly loud shrieking sounds from the bit when I'm hole cutting.

                      First one, used for several holes, no problems... even before I learned that you AREN'T supposed to carve the whole 3/4" of MDF in one cut. Then, cutting some BB, it sounded a bit funny, stopped the cut, shut off and set the router down and found half the bit laying on the table after coming back in a few minutes. It had broken up in the collet, then fell out when it cooled off!!

                      Second one, new collet, first use, loud noises during driver hole cuts... taken 1/4" at a time with the Dewalt depth stepper... and on the last, deepest pass, it broke off while running. A few sparks, but no +200mph carbide bullet flying across the shop. (whew)

                      Got a third one, and it also makes loud shrieky noises in the first few inches of cut... I stopped. Got a basic, two flute carbide cutter, put it in, no funny noises, cut OK...

                      Seems like the birch sets up harmonic vibrations with all the area rubbing against the longer bit... maybe MDF doesn't do it so much. I'm pretty puzzled...

                      Maybe I need one of your special Steel cutting versions... (but it's the same brand, from what I can make out in the pic)

                      Shrieking sounds are bad mmmkay. Sounds like you're cutting too deep in a single pass. It should take at least 4 passes to cut through 5/8" BB and moving slowly. The faster you go, the harder on the tool. Imagine what it takes to remove wood using that bit, by hand then take pity on your tool.

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                      • #12
                        Re: ...so these are good router bits

                        Well, the Dewalt has a 4 step depth gizmo... divides your depth into 4. That's what I was using, 4 cuts thru 5/8". So, less than I had said earlier.

                        I would cut slow, cut fast, lower RPM, full RPM... I would still get this vibration/shreik. The collet was new, I've checked and had our machine shop guy check the router for bearing play... didn't seem to be any. And, very little trouble with the straight flute 1/4" in the same wood and setup. Weird.

                        I'll have to try the spiral upcut on some MDF again, see if it's quiet, and this is all a vibrational thing with it and the BB.

                        A Rockler guy said that the straight flutes would be the bit of choice for hole cutting... He suggested that spirals are mostly for cutting blind holes and short slots, to keep the sawdust from packing up. Our circle cutting leaves a slot that prevents buildup. He'd only cut 1/8" at a pass with a solid carbide spiral, and don't let the bit heat up too much.

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                        • #13
                          Re: ...so these are good router bits

                          Originally posted by jonpike View Post
                          I would cut slow, cut fast, lower RPM, full RPM... I would still get this vibration/shreik. The collet was new, I've checked and had our machine shop guy check the router for bearing play... didn't seem to be any. And, very little trouble with the straight flute 1/4" in the same wood and setup. Weird.
                          That's echoes my experience with my router using Freud bits. Freud is a reputable company, but I couldn't get Freud bits to last in MDF. There was the same problem with resonance, the bits would get dark from heat (using shallow 1/8" cuts), and break before their time. Like you, I tried different speeds and feeds to see if there was a way to stop the resonance.

                          I was in the middle of a project when my upcut spiral bit broke, and I went to Lowe's to buy another bit to finish the job. I bought what the brand they carried (Bosch), and these bits worked MUCH better than the old ones.

                          Might be worth a try.
                          Bill Schneider
                          -+-+-+-+-
                          www.afterness.com/audio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ...so these are good router bits

                            I have had a similar experience with whiteside spiral up-cuts in terms of sound. "Shriek" is about right. But it is not discoloring and doesn't seem to be getting too hot. I have never had such sounds with a straight flute bit.

                            But on the other hand the whiteside has lasted for quite a while.

                            As for Bosch bits: I have whiteside, mlcs, mlcs katana, freud, milwaukee, woodriver (woodcraft's brand), generic and a Bosch bit. The only one I have worn out is a Bosch flush trim bit. The carbide seems much smaller than most other bits. This could also be because I have used this particular bit a lot so take it with a grain of salt.

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                            • #15
                              Re: ...so these are good router bits

                              Did you just drop the bit into the collet and tighten 'er up? Doing so may prevent proper grip on the bit shank.

                              As the collet constricts around the bit shank, it also draws it along the travel of the collet nut threads. If the bit is bottomed out in the collet, it can't move with the axial motion and prevents a proper grip

                              Get in the habit of finger tightening the collet first, then pulling the bit up about 1/16" before tightening with the wrenches.

                              Hope this helps.

                              -Kurt

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