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The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

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  • The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

    After a year of research I uncovered and compiled an interesting story from within the loudspeaker industry. You can download my manuscript here, http://www.s-m-audio.com/truth.zip

    Feel free to distribute this file.


    Hi Chris,

    I wanted to contact you but I could not find your email address anywhere.
    I am independent of any company; however, I do worship the god of math and physics.
    You quoted me out of context.
    Thanks for the proof read. I have made the corrections. You can view them here, http://www.s-m-audio.com/truth.zip .
    Hey, and thanks for offering to post my discussion at the Usher website. Dr. Linkwitz has a link from his site too, http://www.linkwitzlab.com/links.htm...th%20Beryllium. If you had told me earlier, it would have saved me a bunch of work.

    Anyway, I am so pleased that folks now understand that the Usher Be-*** are really Ti-*** but with a close color match to Truextent (acoustic grade beryllium). In 2004 this coloring was identified as paint, http://www.electrofusionproducts.com...mes_Report.pdf . Can you tell or another reader tell me how a material that is 88.47% Ti and 6075 parts per million Be can have the steel gray color of Be other than by painting? I am just not comfortable with that.

    Mike Klasco also discussed Bogusium in Voice Coil, http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/...sBeryllium.pdf . Both the testing and article were about Usher's supplier, Sonic Electronics.

    My identification of the psychoacoustic Be placebo is a topic of research and has merit. How else can one explain the preference for loudspeakers?

    Yours,

    Steve Mowry
    Last edited by mowry; 06-16-2009, 07:12 PM.

  • #2
    Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

    Mowry, you've got all of 8 posts behind you and you post a link to a random zip file? Yeah, this doesn't look fishy... :D

    However, in mowry's defense, I just downloaded it and opened it on my Linux box. TrendMicro OfficeScan didn't freak on my XP machine, either. Seems to be what he says it is.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

      Bogusium? That can't be good.

      It's not a virus, btw (no offense, but posting .zip files is sort of sketchy)
      I am trolling you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

        Originally posted by Dirk View Post
        Mowry, you've got all of 8 posts behind you and you post a link to a random zip file? Yeah, this doesn't look fishy... :D

        However, in mowry's defense, I just downloaded it and opened it on my Linux box. TrendMicro OfficeScan didn't freak on my XP machine, either. Seems to be what he says it is.
        Thanks for throwing yourself on a potential grenade, Dirk. Even on a Mac I don't tend to download untrusted material. And yep, the first thing I looked at was how many posts Mowry had under his belt. I don't like to be untrusting but after getting word that my debit card had been compromised (no loss, thankfully) I'm not exactly in the mood to be had.

        shawn
        My favorite woofer is a Labrador retriever.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

          Originally posted by Dirk View Post
          Mowry, you've got all of 8 posts behind you and you post a link to a random zip file? Yeah, this doesn't look fishy... :D

          However, in mowry's defense, I just downloaded it and opened it on my Linux box. TrendMicro OfficeScan didn't freak on my XP machine, either. Seems to be what he says it is.
          Steve Mowry is a geniune industry professional and this post seems legit.

          Summed up, he has a concern about fake Beryllium.

          Of particular interest to me is the mention that Usher originally sourced beryllium from a diaphragm manufacturer that had a low percentage of beryllium content. Then in February of this year, they switched to a different dome supplier with higher beryllium content. I have to wonder which one I just tested, as it was barely any different from the Usher aluminum dome.

          It's all interesting reading, but I have to sit and wonder what Steve's real motivation is behind publishing and pushing this article far and wide.

          My own personal view is that there's absolutely nothing special about any beryllium speaker, be it pure or less that 1% beryllium content. I'm taking that stance until it's proven to me otherwise. There's obviously a lot more that goes into driver design than diaphragm material selection.

          The whole rah-rah started mostly because of a late 70's Pioneer speaker system that was well received. There was a mention of this in Steve's article. Unfortunately, this mysticism over beryllium is generated by nothing more than people subjectively evaluating a system rather objectively evaluating an individual driver. It's a common problem that still is rampant today.

          Just my $.02.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

            Indeed, accuton's diamond diaphragms are also dubious.

            Ribbon tweeters are dubious.

            Large planar speakers are dubious.

            I have a degree in marketing, and there's a definite reason Bose has such market share - it sure as hell isn't their R & D department. Such marketing hoo-hah and a lack of respect for testing - and dare I say SCIENCE - is insidious at best.
            I am trolling you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

              Originally posted by MSaturn View Post
              Indeed, accuton's diamond diaphragms are also dubious.
              Well I don't know about Accuton, but a while back I had a B&W diamond tweeter run through a materials lab and it was indeed diamond. Or at least, DLC (diamond-like carbon) on a platinum base.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                Oh, I was referring to usefulness. I can't hear much past 20Khz - I'm sure most posters here can't - and one of Accuton's selling points is "response to 100KHz!" or some business.

                My gripe is the supposed superiority of these materials to standard varieties.

                A tweeter better do my taxes at $800 ...

                That said, you didn't do any testing on the B&W besides the materials, did you? .. I suppose you couldn't say anyway heh
                I am trolling you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                  Originally posted by MSaturn View Post
                  Oh, I was referring to usefulness. I can't hear much past 20Khz - I'm sure most posters here can't - and one of Accuton's selling points is "response to 100KHz!" or some business.

                  My gripe is the supposed superiority of these materials to standard varieties.

                  A tweeter better do my taxes at $800 ...

                  That said, you didn't do any testing on the B&W besides the materials, did you? .. I suppose you couldn't say anyway heh
                  If I remember correctly he did test the tweeters but agreed not to share the results in exchange for the privilege to do so. Something he swore he would never do again. I don't remember where I read that....
                  It's not how far you go, it's how go you far http://techtalk.parts-express.com/co...es/biggrin.gif

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                    Originally posted by MSaturn View Post
                    Oh, I was referring to usefulness. I can't hear much past 20Khz - I'm sure most posters here can't - and one of Accuton's selling points is "response to 100KHz!" or some business.

                    My gripe is the supposed superiority of these materials to standard varieties.

                    A tweeter better do my taxes at $800 ...

                    That said, you didn't do any testing on the B&W besides the materials, did you? .. I suppose you couldn't say anyway heh
                    I have a 28 year old friend whose hearing extends well above 20kHz, with a rising response, no less (verified by hearing tests). So, there is a market. :rolleyes:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                      Originally posted by envisionelec View Post
                      I have a 28 year old friend whose hearing extends well above 20kHz, with a rising response, no less (verified by hearing tests). So, there is a market. :rolleyes:
                      So, what kind of music does Rover find the most relaxing? :D
                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                        Originally posted by jkrutke View Post
                        I have to wonder which one I just tested, as it was barely any different from the Usher aluminum dome.
                        Mowry just posted a data sheet from Sonic showing 88% Titanium and a miniscule amount of Be. Maybe the ones you just tested were Ti?

                        I agree with the comments about Be being the holy grail too. If I were to choose, it would be something with both high stiffness and high intrinsic damping. The Accuton ceramics come close. I think the Metal Matrix family probably has a lot to offer. And I don't mean the anodized stuff Harman et al call MM. Or some kind of metalized foam.
                        ~Brandon
                        Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
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                        Soma Sonus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                          Originally posted by augerpro View Post
                          Mowry just posted a data sheet from Sonic showing 88% Titanium and a miniscule amount of Be. Maybe the ones you just tested were Ti?

                          I agree with the comments about Be being the holy grail too. If I were to choose, it would be something with both high stiffness and high intrinsic damping. The Accuton ceramics come close. I think the Metal Matrix family probably has a lot to offer. And I don't mean the anodized stuff Harman et al call MM. Or some kind of metalized foam.
                          I wonder how an exponentially curved cone, fashioned from Al, Mg, Ti, with a thin layer of flexible plastic to damp cone resonances, would perform. Get the stiffness and pistonic action of the metal cone with better tamed resonances perhaps. I wonder if it's been attempted. I'd be amazed if it hadn't. I just don't have that many truly original ideas . . . :rolleyes:
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                            Originally posted by ctbowman View Post
                            If I remember correctly he did test the tweeters but agreed not to share the results in exchange for the privilege to do so. Something he swore he would never do again. I don't remember where I read that....
                            You're thinking of the Accuton diamond dome which I made that agreement for. And then I swore I would keep results secret again... until the new ScAR and Vifa neo woofers came along. :D

                            I never did test the B&W diamond. I just had a broken one sent to me once so I could inspect the motor and overall design. (impressive) I dropped some dome fragments in an envelope and sent them out to get analyzed.

                            Mowry just posted a data sheet from Sonic showing 88% Titanium and a miniscule amount of Be. Maybe the ones you just tested were Ti?
                            They were grayish-purple colored. Still not sure, but if they are fake I'd say Usher did a good job with the color match to the old pioneer domes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Whole Truth About Beryllium Diaphragms

                              Originally posted by mowry View Post
                              After a year of research I uncovered and compiled an interesting story from within the loudspeaker industry. You can download my manuscript here, http://www.s-m-audio.com/truth.zip
                              ...So the moral of the story is caveat emptor.

                              John, I was thinking those domes you speak of were probably Yamahas, Pioneer was more famous back then for their HPM's (cylindrical piezos), then I searched:
                              http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EX.../cs-755-e.html

                              I wonder if this was a "me too" speaker based on the yamahas.

                              Comment

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