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  • A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

    The topic of audible effects of power cords has come up several times, and has just as frequently devolved into a Monty Pythonesque argument clinic of "You're imagining things!" "No, you're deaf!"

    The primary proposed benefit of "audiophile" power cords is superior rejection of power line and airborne noise artifacts. So, why not devise a test that would eliminate all variables EXCEPT the (perhaps hypothetical) effect of different power cords on the noise floor of a component?

    Hook a mid-priced integrated amp or receiver (with removable power cord) to a pair of efficient speakers. Place the speakers right next to each other, or turn the balance control all the way to one channel. Have NO signal source connected, and preferably cap/shield all the input jacks. Turn the volume up to max, and listen closely to the speakers. Whatever hum, hiss, or buzz you hear, however quietly, is the noise floor of the amplifier.

    If you have the test gear and an extremely quiet/ sonically isolated room, you could place a very sensitive mic up to the speaker and run a spectral analysis of this noise.

    Now swap power cords, without changing any other variables. Listen and measure. Does the background noise of the amplifier change in any way -- absolute dB level, frequency balance, or harmonic structure? Try this with as many cords as you have on hand, especially generic cheapos vs. fancy shielded, heavy duty types.

    If there is absolutely no audible/measurable difference in the noise with different cords, then (A) different cords are unlikely to have any effect upon the sound of the system when playing music, or (B) the experiment is flawed and looking for the wrong thing.

    If objective differences ARE detected (for instance, lower noise, overall or at particular frequencies, with a particular cord), then the debate remains open as to whether this difference in background noise would be audible while listening to music at normal levels. It becomes more of a princess-and-the-pea situation: how MUCH resultant difference in SN ratio can someone hear? I'm not sure I'd be able to, but my gut feeling is that there may be a few princesses out there who really CAN feel the pea through the seventeen mattresses.

  • #2
    Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

    Originally posted by brianp View Post
    The topic of audible effects of power cords has come up several times, and has just as frequently devolved into a Monty Pythonesque argument clinic of "You're imagining things!" "No, you're deaf!"
    What a can of worms you opened!!! :eek:

    Jan Luszczek did a comparative A/B overlay comparison with an audio digital editing system some years ago. He was very methodical in his approach and when he reported on his findings was thoroughly dissed by the usual suspects.

    I think that ANY methodology that you propose will find a brick wall for a reception.

    Pity.

    Dave
    "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

    www.piaudiogroup.com

    http://www.avguide.com/blog/tas-rmaf...w-technologies
    http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/ramblings.htm
    http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/uber_buss.htm

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    • #3
      Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

      I guess what strikes me is your electricity comes hundreds of miles through all sorts of wire. Why would the last six feet be so influential?

      I cannot dismiss the possibility of a difference in sound from power cords, since I have not compared any myself. I know what I think, but that's just what I think.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

        One of the jobs of the power supply inside a piece of electronics is to isolate the wall socket from the audio, it does this by rectifying the AC signal to DC and filtering it. If there is any noise induced in the audio signal the power supply is at fault not the piece of wire connecting the wall to the chassis. So if an audiophile power cord does improve signal to noise ratio on a particular piece of equipment then all you really proved is that piece of equipment had a poor power supply to begin with.
        Paul O

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        • #5
          Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

          Originally posted by djg View Post
          I guess what strikes me is your electricity comes hundreds of miles through all sorts of wire. Why would the last six feet be so influential?

          I cannot dismiss the possibility of a difference in sound from power cords, since I have not compared any myself. I know what I think, but that's just what I think.
          What about all the noise dumped into the electrical circuit by your computer or CD player plugged a mere inches away for your other components?
          Yeah I built a couple speakers....

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

            One area where there might be a difference in power cords is how well or poorly they couple AC hum and noise into other nearby cabling which may be carrying low-level, sensitive audio signals; I know the back of my AV rack looks pretty ugly!

            I see this quite a bit at work where poor routing and isolation between signal cables and power cables can easily mean the difference between measuring an SNR of 85dB or > 100dB.

            Louis

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            • #7
              Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

              Originally posted by dbe View Post
              What a can of worms you opened!!! :eek:

              Jan Luszczek did a comparative A/B overlay comparison with an audio digital editing system some years ago. He was very methodical in his approach and when he reported on his findings was thoroughly dissed by the usual suspects.

              I think that ANY methodology that you propose will find a brick wall for a reception.

              Pity.

              Dave
              I think your are right - no matter what was done in the test, the reaction would be the same, so it is likely it wouldn't matter.

              I remember Jan's tests, which included objective measurements which showed an measurable drop in the noise floor with the power cord change.

              I also remember the power cord that traveled around the country for anyone to try that wanted it. No matter what anything thought of your position on this - sending one around for anyone to try was a stand-up thing to do and you deserve a lot of credit for that. It kills the contention that you are a snake-oil saleman. Snake-oil saleman don't want people to try things before they buy them, you do, however, if you really believe there is a difference.

              Now, I have a cord. I'd let someone use it that wanted it. And my position on all of this in irrelevant so I would prefer to leave it out of the mix at this point.

              Jeff B.
              Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                Originally posted by dbe View Post
                I think that ANY methodology that you propose will find a brick wall for a reception.

                Pity.

                Dave
                Dave,

                Get your Flameproof suit. I think you have the most to gain from creating an acceptable test. It is sad to hear you say these words...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                  IMO, since RF is inaudible, the most likely way it would affect the output is through intermodulation with an existing signal, be it a multi tone test signal or music. -Well, yes, it could be rectified by the power supply, so your test would exemplify a marginally designed power supply. Here is a link to a similar test.

                  My best advice: If you really think you have an isssue, buy a $25 dual stage power line filter from Moser or Digikey and install it (preferably inside) your equipment. Less convenient, but also less costly than the botique cables, and perhaps(?) every bit as effective.

                  C
                  Curt's Speaker Design Works

                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
                  - Aristotle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                    Originally posted by brianpowers27 View Post
                    Dave,

                    Get your Flameproof suit. I think you have the most to gain from creating an acceptable test. It is sad to hear you say these words...
                    Here is a link to Jan's test. Other than to provide this link I will abstain from the discussion out of common courtesy. I will not discuss something that I manufacture and sell on this forum. I don't believe that is the right thing to do.



                    Dave
                    "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

                    www.piaudiogroup.com

                    http://www.avguide.com/blog/tas-rmaf...w-technologies
                    http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/ramblings.htm
                    http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/uber_buss.htm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                      Originally posted by brianpowers27 View Post
                      Dave,

                      Get your Flameproof suit. I think you have the most to gain from creating an acceptable test. It is sad to hear you say these words...
                      I got to thinking about what you said and I'm taking a few minutes away from the grill (ribs) to post this link:


                      Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo!


                      I don't think that it has been updated in some time. It is a compendium of links, tests and articles of all kinds of topics in audio. It doesn't matter. It will get booed and dismissed by the usual suspects as tweako audiophool stuff. No matter what anyone proposes on this forum, there will never be a civil conversation about these kinds of things due to the signal to noise ratio here. Getting rid of noise from AC is easy. Getting rid of the noise here is impossible.

                      :(

                      Dave
                      "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

                      www.piaudiogroup.com

                      http://www.avguide.com/blog/tas-rmaf...w-technologies
                      http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/ramblings.htm
                      http://positive-feedback.com/Issue47/uber_buss.htm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                        Originally posted by Ludo View Post
                        One area where there might be a difference in power cords is how well or poorly they couple AC hum and noise into other nearby cabling which may be carrying low-level, sensitive audio signals; I know the back of my AV rack looks pretty ugly!
                        That would probably depend more on the "nearby cabling." If that's crap, I don't see the point in spending on a fancy power cord instead.
                        Bob Lee
                        Applications engineer, QSC Audio
                        Secretary, Audio Engineering Society

                        "If it sounds good, it is good."
                        -Duke Ellington

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                          Originally posted by bobleeqsc View Post
                          That would probably depend more on the "nearby cabling." If that's crap, I don't see the point in spending on a fancy power cord instead.
                          The most effective way to prevent problems with EMI, is to not generate it in the first place. Now whether a power cord can make a difference? Haven't tried it.

                          Louis

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                          • #14
                            Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                            "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

                            http://www.diy-ny.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A proposed protocol for testing the "audibility" of power cords

                              Cool - would be interesting to compare one of those high-end power cords against a standard-issue cord and a power conditioner.

                              Thanks for the link,
                              Louis

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