Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

[Wolf]

First off, Thank you PE for the prizes allowing the purchase for these parts.

This will be a vented 4-way, not unlike the Icthus in inspiration. Athos is meant to be the *upgrade* from Icthus. It will most likely NOT be inverted, due to placement with sooooo many drivers and cabinet size. I am still playing with aesthetics, so this may change.

Sorry for the blurrrrzzzz...



I will have to see what CTC issues present, but these drivers are what I'm using.

Now- some unit observations....

The ND28F-6 has a variance in plastic-color than the previous units I have. These are more charcoal-textured-black, and the previous units were flat-textured-black. So they are a little lighter in color. No matter for me, as I'll be painting the faces to match the W3 midranges. These are very clean tweeters, but I wanted more dispersion on top, so I got the 13-'s as well.

The TB crew has apparently snuck something by us in the W8-1363SB without it being recognized. These venerable monsters now have a **double-spider**, and it is not mentioned in the specs anywhere on PE or TB websites, so I didn't expect that. It's a nice touch in this price-range! This is apparently a difference from the -SA version I also have. I doubt you can see it in this picture....



I'm going to try for about 500 Hz for the xover point above this W8 unit.

The very tiny 13-1761S does not have polarity markings, so I'll have to investigate that and report my findings. It is VERY tiny!!!! It has a threaded hole on the rear for mounting should you want to use it, and reportedly works best above 8 kHz, 12dB elec.



The W3-1335SB is just a rarely used jewel I hope. Same kinda clarity from the midrange if it works out well, but limited on Xmax and output potential. I'll have to see how this goes.....

Wish me luck! I don't know when I'll start on the wood, as I have too many project-irons in the fire.
Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

More on the 13-1761S tweeters...

The very tiny 13-1761S does not have polarity markings, so I'll have to investigate that and report my findings. It is VERY tiny!!!! It has a threaded hole on the rear for mounting should you want to use it, and reportedly works best above 8 kHz, 12dB elec.

I stand corrected on my statement of no markings for this driver. They don't appear to at first glance, and I brushed it off. There is a dark-red paint-marker or even felt-tip marker designation on the opposing side of the screw-mount, on the half that is positive. I did a battery test to verify it, and while movement was small, it was visually noticeable.

The terminal that is positive is on the right when both are positioned at 12:00 on the rear.

Now- to soldering these tiny things. I had to attach leads to even get measurements, and used a stranded #22 or thereabouts as the solder-bumps are not large. Having a 'helping-hand' to hold the units might be beneficial while attaching the leads so it does not *move* on you. You may also have to add solder to the bumps before soldering to the leads so you have enough solder present for ease of attachment. I also recommend solder tipping the wire before hand. That was a smart move.

As to the threaded insert, I'm not certain on size yet. It's about an 8-32, but it doesn't keep threading. The mounting screw is not included.

Here's the Z-plots...




Looks like ~4.8 kHz Fs on one of them.
Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

More info on the W8-1363SB's...

These are very similar to each other. Z = ~120 ohms at 20 kHz, since I did not provide a plot.





I did loosen the suspensions by hand until the break-in 'spider-creak' stops, as usual. I can provide .zma's if someone's interested.
Later,
Wolf

[Max_Andrews]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

Looks like a sweet project wolf, I've wanted to mess around with that 1/2" tweeter myself for a while now. You could carve a little notch out of the ND28 flange to get the 1/2" tweet as close as possible - when crossing up around 10khz i assume even 1/2" of closer spacing would help improve directivity.

[jonpike]

Re: More on the 13-1761S tweeters...

As to the threaded insert, I'm not certain on size yet. It's about an 8-32, but it doesn't keep threading. The mounting screw is not included.

Later,
Wolf

Wow.. they are tiny. For coaxial use, originally?

The screw's gotta be a metric thread, I forget which size is about that size...

Curious as to how the new W8 measures out against the old W8's...

[Wolf]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

Looks like a sweet project wolf, I've wanted to mess around with that 1/2" tweeter myself for a while now. You could carve a little notch out of the ND28 flange to get the 1/2" tweet as close as possible - when crossing up around 10khz i assume even 1/2" of closer spacing would help improve directivity.

Are you somehow reading my mind???

The ND28F has a removeable face, and it's plastic. I can therefore do exactly as you have entertained. Probably with the midrange on the other side as well.

We think alike, you and I!
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: More on the 13-1761S tweeters...

Wow.. they are tiny. For coaxial use, originally?

The screw's gotta be a metric thread, I forget which size is about that size...

Curious as to how the new W8 measures out against the old W8's...

They are marketed as both co-axial and stand-alone units in a micro size.

You can go to my PE Blog and read the "Compellurgy 8" project writeup for the specs on the W8-1363SA, which I also have.

So I guess I have answered that question for you....
Later,
Wolf

[maynardg]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

Looks like a sweet project wolf, I've wanted to mess around with that 1/2" tweeter myself for a while now. You could carve a little notch out of the ND28 flange to get the 1/2" tweet as close as possible - when crossing up around 10khz i assume even 1/2" of closer spacing would help improve directivity.

You youngsters can hear that.

[gowa]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

Wolf,
have you done anything with those Extremis yet?

[jbruner]

Re: More info on the W8-1363SB's...

These are very similar to each other. Z = ~120 ohms at 20 kHz, since I did not provide a plot.





I did loosen the suspensions by hand until the break-in 'spider-creak' stops, as usual. I can provide .zma's if someone's interested.
Later,
Wolf

I think those will benefit from a lot more break-in. My well broken-in pair measure 29.5hz and 30hz Fs with large signal.

[Wolf]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

Wolf,
have you done anything with those Extremis yet?

That's on the horizon as well....
RS28, proto-Dayton Honeycombs (I call them the HS-180), and the Extremis in a 2.5 way. You can't buy either woofer, so I figured they mated well. (I don't know what I'm doing with the North's yet.....)

I actually have baffles for the 2-way portion, but I have to enlarge the cutout for the woofer. The Extremis fits in it, so I don't know if I'm going to enlarge the cutout, or just make an extension above to house the other woofer. It's up in the air at this point.

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: Got my "Athos" drivers today.....

You youngsters can hear that.

I suppose that's possible, Maynard!
Didn't occur to me, you old-timer, you! :rolleyes:;)
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: More info on the W8-1363SB's...

I think those will benefit from a lot more break-in. My well broken-in pair measure 29.5hz and 30hz Fs with large signal.

You usually don't get much variation, but I will be trying that in the near future.
Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Been doing some modelling....

I'm not revealing the parts for the xover at this stage, as it's not fair to exclude the woofer and provide a network. However, I will give the simulation progression a position in this thread for those interested. All sims are edge-to-edge spacing, without altering the ND28's flange for simplicity's sake.

ND28F-6/13-1761S;
BW4 @ 8740, and has 6 parts currently present; all small in value. No cap over 4uF, and no coil over 0.2mH. One ohm resistor on the ST. The off-axis plot is virtually unchanged out to 40 degrees horizontal. Vertical dispersion isn't horrible, but you lose about 1-2dB in the 12 kHz range at 20 deg:



W3-1335SB/ND28F-6/13-1761S;
Mid to tweeter is LR2 @ 2870 currently, and 3 parts per leg. I don't know how much bandpass gain is going to be a factor for the W3 once I get the woofer into play. W3 is in about 2 ltrs sealed. T and ST are reverse-polarity from the midrange.



Once I get an FR plot for the woofer (I don't trust TB's published plot for this), I should be a go on further progression.

TBD xover is going to attempt 400-600 Hz range for woofer to mid, and hopefully FR will be 25 Hz-beyond 20 kHz with very good off-axis responses, net sensitivity of 85dB or so, and relatively low parts count. I'm trying to make this a mostly 12dB electrical xover like the predecessor "Icthus".

Thanks for looking!
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: More on the 13-1761S tweeters...

As to the threaded insert, I'm not certain on size yet. It's about an 8-32, but it doesn't keep threading. The mounting screw is not included.
Later,
Wolf

The screw that works is an M4. I will probably mount it to a piece of hardboard on the rear of the baffle, and notch out for the lead wires like a keyhole. This way the screw still mounts and holds tight, and the terminals don't get all mashed or damaged.

I'm toying with a removable 'plate' to mount the upper 3-way and simplify installation in the smaller chamber. I don't think I want the whole xover outside the smaller chamber, so that means it's inside the smaller chamber, and the woofer's outside in the main volume. I only have to seal 2 wire holes this way, and not additionally cram them through a 2.5" hole. I know I could have done that, but it's never easy!

Later,
Wolf