DIYowa 2009 is in the books

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

A buyout is a buyout, no need to apologize. You used the buyout price, and that's what anyone could have gotten it for. You done REAL GOOD! :D

[tom_s]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

Guys, thanks for letting me clear my conscience. Like most people there, I wasn't really there to compete. I wanted feedback, to hear more about what I might need to work on, to hear what others had cooked up, and just get together with some of the other people around the area who have this same sickness! I really wish I would have heard Rory's Tombstones from my original seat. I was way off-axis when his were up and just not paying attention at the time. Truth be told, I was pretty worried what the Firebird track might do to my entry!

No problem posting the crossover-it's Jay's design and I just played with the voicing and box a bit. I'll put it in the appropriate thread.

Thanks,
Tom

[Taterworks]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

Well, actually the 'Stones' are not the "Tombstones". These guys are the Tombstones: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=57916.0

I do, however, think I like the name "Whetstones," so I'm officially changing the project name (which I can still do, since I haven't published it yet.) I think I'll still call them the 'Stones for short.

[DougP]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

I am truly sorry if I have offended anyone and hope I might still be welcome to participate next year.

Tom S

Tom,
Not to worry. It was an honest oversight and I will note it in the results. I agree with idea that it's about talking to other builders and getting feedback about the speakers that you have worked on. I see the "competition" part of the event as a very minor part and not to be taken too seriously.
D.

is anyone else supprised that there were no tritrix or recession busters? i kinda wish i would have brought my rb ported. to see if they would hold there own. maynards veneered speakers looked just fantastic. they make me want to try.

As stated before the Tri-Trix have been to the Iowa event before. I would expect to see a RB show up next year.
D

[biff]

Hated to miss this one

Seems there were some unreasonably good designs there

Could anyone comment on basic crossover topology on some of the better reviewed pieces? I understand Curt had a "quasi"? TP design (only on low/mid pass?), any Dueland style? Anything unique? anyone have active and reconfigured for the venue? Does anyone know why Shawn and Wolf ran out of the room after the mysterious call from commisioner Gordon?

[DougP]

Re: Hated to miss this one

Seems there were some unreasonably good designs there

Could anyone comment on basic crossover topology on some of the better reviewed pieces? I understand Curt had a "quasi"? TP design (only on low/mid pass?), any Dueland style? Anything unique? anyone have active and reconfigured for the venue? Does anyone know why Shawn and Wolf ran out of the room after the mysterious call from commisioner Gordon?

Biff,
I have a lot of that information for the designs and will be posting as much of it as is reasonable. I am going to start on it tonight and hope to have evetythng posted by the end of this weekend.
Doug

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Hated to miss this one

Seems there were some unreasonably good designs there

Could anyone comment on basic crossover topology on some of the better reviewed pieces? I understand Curt had a "quasi"? TP design (only on low/mid pass?), any Dueland style? Anything unique? anyone have active and reconfigured for the venue? Does anyone know why Shawn and Wolf ran out of the room after the mysterious call from commisioner Gordon?

I was wondering why those two had a strange fondness for spandex tights.

[Paul K.]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

All of my speakers are designed to work well in my space with their backs typically about 6" from the wall. At the 2008 PE DIY and 2008 Iowa DIY my canTiLenas took first place in their Classes. I couldn't make PE's event this year and would have taken the Marcatos, but I did take them to this Iowa event and I guess we'll have to wait for the voting results to see how they did in that big "room".
Paul

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=213020

Oh - I just remembered a question I had... In the case of speakers which are designed not to be more than a couple feet away from the back wall, I wonder how they could be properly auditioned at an event like this?

I guess they could only be heard at smaller events like InDIYana, and Dayton - would have to get pre-approved to not place them on the tape marks on the floor that they had at Dayton, I guess?

[scottsehlin]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

I really want to thank Doug P., along with Maynard and Todd for working to put together a great event. It was great to see both old and new faces - and as always this event is a great way to hear a wide variety of different drivers and design approaches in a format where they can be compared side-by-side.

I will echo the thoughts of many that the bar has been rising over the years. Even those designs that finish near the bottom of their categories don't do anything significantly wrong. We as designers are now chasing either doing everything very well or finding some magical synergy that creates a "wow" factor.

Some quick thoughts on the entries:

Budget Class:

Both Robert and Wolf's 8" two-ways were very solid. Robert's were a little boomy in that room, but that could have been a function of the stage/floor setup as much as the design. In any event, it's a great way to get full range capability for minimum complexity and cost. It is a big challenge to get a reasonably priced 8" woofer to integrate with a reasonably priced tweeter, and you both managed that well.

Marty's copper project was spot-on. That 5" Tang Band woofer did a great job in the small-floorstanding enclosure.

Wolf's Vijon was really a fun, lively speaker to listen to - it brings plenty of detail and life to the music - not to mention that the cabinet look and finish is a sight to behold.

I felt that the Cryolites that Todd brought in the floorstanding cabinet had the best overall combination of strengths; bass quality, overall resolution, and treble delicacy. Trying to cross the RS180 and Neo3PDR at 2kHz is clearly a tradeoff (which is what the budget category is all about) - but it is managed well enough that the overall payoff is worth it.

Super Budget:

Rory's "Stones" has some obvious limitations at the frequency extremes, but does midrange very well - which is really what you should be after if you are building a 4" single driver speaker. Nicely done.

Dirk's "Oh really" design was also competent, but didn't quite do midrange quite as well as the "Stones".

Tom's RMK6 design was excellent - I like others am not sure if it really belongs in the Budget or Super Budget category. It's a very good design and a great value regardless of where it falls. I don't think anything in the budget category would have significantly outclassed it. The Peerless HDS Nomex is a very nice midwoofer.

Unlimited:

Only one speaker here - Dan's "Basslines". This is an ambitious project. The high efficiency and SPL capability is certainly unique. I think the crossover is well wrung-out at this point. IMHO, the B&C mid is a bit of a limitation in this design - keeping it in the "hall of very good" relative to some other "uber" designs presented by Dan, Curt, Jim Salk, Jim Holtz, Paul K, and others in years past.

Midrange:

Wow, this category was really stacked full of excellent designs. I appreciated the constructive feedback on my design and will start a separate thread at some point to discuss it further.

Ed Froste's design was extremely ambitious - the Mark Audio mid and HiVi tweeter were new to me and the cabinet has to be seen to be believed. I don't think this design is complete yet (there are so many variables to consider, it would be a hard design to ever complete) - but I certainly commend Ed for developing a creative approach for controlling the rear wave of an open back mid.

Paul K's Marcatos were excellent. Integration of the Usher midwoofers and the Neo3PDR's was flawless and the drivers both provided high resolution, low distortion sound. I felt that the bass could have been stronger, but as Paul has mentioned he places them 6" from the back wall in his room. I'll bet the bass is very good in that case.

Maynard's Ziran design was also very well done. After listening to the Matrix and Marcatos, one could notice that the low-level resolution wasn't at the same level - but the Ziran was eminently smooth and easy to listen to. Like Shawn, I felt that the design didn't quite have the same magic that the Tzu-Jan conjured last year.

Shawn's Arpeggios... The cabinet design may not be complete, but I'll cast a vote for the crossover design being complete. This does about everything a 7" two-way can do (good resolution, integration, refinement, imaging). Great Job.

Finally, there is Curt's design. I preferred the "A" design. It may not have been the most clinically accurate, but that quasi-TP crossover really brought things alive and created the elusive "wow" moment of the show (at least for me). That Peerless 8" worked perfectly in the big auditorium, providing full extension and beautiful resolution without boom. The TB mid was also a revelation....

Thanks again to all of the organizers, attendees, and to those who brought speakers.

[ncpilot]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

First post on this forum, but I go way back in speaker building... to building Rogers LS3/5a clones and the early days of Speaker Builder Magazine...

I was just about set to build the Mini Statements + CC for home theater, but also waiting for this DIY...

In the opinion of the attendees, are some of the high performers a better choice than the Mini Statements? (I haven't found exact pricing yet for the mid-range category)

Considering the detailed build docs on Curt's site for the Mini's, and his praised Maverick (HDS-TB-Dayton)--maybe he could comment? (same Curt I think?)

Crap, I was happy with my last build (Madisound DIY 2001?), until I got a 73" tv that dwarfs my speakers! :D

[Wolf]

Re: Hated to miss this one

I was wondering why those two had a strange fondness for spandex tights.

????
Wolf

[biff]

Re: Hated to miss this one

????
Wolf

Your lack of elocution seems out of character, Boy Wonder --- Catwoman got your tongue? heheh

[curt_c]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

Seems there were some unreasonably good designs there

Could anyone comment on basic crossover topology on some of the better reviewed pieces? I understand Curt had a "quasi"? TP design (only on low/mid pass?),

The Maverick could really be considered a 2 way with a helper tweeter, as the ND 16 did not cross in until 10K. The QTP version the woofer/mid fc is around 650 Hz with initially first order slopes but reverting to 2nd order further away from fc. The transfer function overlap is nearly 1 octave either side of fc. The baffle was sloped and the drivers positioned to align the acoustic centers on the design axis, and of course the drivers were in phase quadrature. The mid/tweeter transfer functions are much higher order, approximately 4th/5th, and the high fc was chosen to minimize their effects on the system phase and power response at lower frequencies where the ear is more sensitive to them. The midrange was sealed, while the woofer was supported by a classic transmission line with a 10:1 taper. I'll put up more information on my site when time permits.

First post on this forum, but I go way back in speaker building... to building Rogers LS3/5a clones and the early days of Speaker Builder Magazine...

I was just about set to build the Mini Statements + CC for home theater, but also waiting for this DIY...

In the opinion of the attendees, are some of the high performers a better choice than the Mini Statements? (I haven't found exact pricing yet for the mid-range category)

Considering the detailed build docs on Curt's site for the Mini's, and his praised Maverick (HDS-TB-Dayton)--maybe he could comment? (same Curt I think?)

Honestly, you could build any of the designs shown Saturday and have an excellent system, in my opinion. The differences in SQ of the designs appeared to be more ones of driver limitations than design execution.
I’ll leave it to others to debate the relative merits of the various designs I’ve had a hand in, but I will point out that the Mini’s have a matching CC while at this juncture the Mavericks do not.
-On the other hand, a pair of Mavericks will currently run about $425.00 in QTP trim. Significantly lower than the Mini's...

C

[nordhaven]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

Shawn's Arpeggios were my favorite of the day. The top end was very nice. The usher tweeter gave lots of detail and transitioned great with the woofer.
It brought the music to life and delivered it with real world dynamics and feel.

A lot of designs did nothing "technically" wrong but often failed to deliver any emotion. Perfectly boring or politely neutral is not what reproducing sound is about to me? It's the brushes on a snare drum and fret buzz and all the little hidden nuances of a recording brought out by a revealing speaker that make old music new again. It's reproducing the real world experience of sound and all it's dynamics and imperfections that moves people, not simulated technical perfection. Good job Shawn!

[DougP]

Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am working on the results. I will let you know as soon as they are posted.
Doug