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  • #76
    Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

    Originally posted by Casshern View Post
    I will be there too!

    It'll probably be my first speaker design/project, so just don't be too harsh on me.
    this was my first, and my first. my entry had a little x-over priblem and all i got was suggestions for troubleshooting and a offer to measure them there! great group of guys.

    start building.:D
    " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
    Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

    http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
    http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

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    • #77
      Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

      Arlis, Did you find out what was causing the response difference between the 2 speakers?
      Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

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      • #78
        Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

        Originally posted by maynardg View Post
        ...I would love to have had a few hours with the Mavericks. Wow.
        Could somebody post a link to the Mavericks, a build thread, or such?
        EDIT: Ah, here it is: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...light=Maverick

        Dan also noted my lament that I had overworked the Zirans. The component count on my final XO rivals the national debt. KISS.
        Sometimes, when a speaker MEASURES well, but, just doesn't sound very pleasing, I wonder - do complex crossovers "do" something bad to the music rendering it lifeless and in some indescribable way unnatural, yet still look good on a FR + distortion graph? Or is that just another audiophile myth...

        Time for some abracadabra.

        I've concluded that no amount of torture is going to make the DQ25 more than a good $13 tweeter. Several tweeters can outperform it for a few dollars more.
        Maynard,
        Would you mind starting a thread on your opinions about the Vifa DQ25?

        So, out with the DQ25's, in with XT25SC90's. They fit the cutout! and should suit my taste for fabric tweeters a bit better...... XO parts count is about half.....
        That tweeter (XT) looks like it could be a real value, if it can cross low - there aren't many choices for small faceplate tweeters that can cross @ 2Khz or lower. It would SEEM to me that it should be able to handle a lower crossover than the DQ25, since it has a chamber and a larger surround... But I haven't tried it...

        On another topic - I wonder how typical it is that DIYers won't use tweeters as low as they could go and sound good, but "listen" too much with their eyes when they look at distortion test? I'm not sure about that, just something I'm curious of.
        Last edited by critofur; 10-22-2009, 01:37 AM. Reason: Seemed to go a bit off topic, cut
        "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

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        • #79
          Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

          Originally posted by tom_s View Post
          Arlis, Did you find out what was causing the response difference between the 2 speakers?
          no, not yet. i bought a ohm meter yesterday. maybe i'll open them up soon.
          with the onkyo i just adjusted the volume to get both the same and reversed the polarity and they really sound good. wish we would have thought to just reverse the polarity at grinell:( these really do image well.
          " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

          Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
          Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

          http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
          http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

            Sometimes, when a speaker MEASURES well, but, just doesn't sound very pleasing, I wonder - do complex crossovers "do" something bad to the music rendering it lifeless and in some indescribable way unnatural, yet still look good on a FR + distortion graph? Or is that just another audiophile myth...
            A definite maybe. I'm not sure of all the parameters that would have to be matched to do a direct comparison. Like Curt's version A & B. Of course they are different, they are not the same.

            Side by side, comparing point by point with the Tzu-Jan, the Ziran is better in most ways. Certainly a better day-to-day, multi-purpose speaker. Obviously the Ziran has better bass extension and quality, way better dynamics, end to end balance. The Ziran can play any kind of music, good or bad quality, loud, without hurting the ears. The only area where it is not quite as nice is the midrange. The W5-1685 is just not as nice as the MDM55 and the AC130 covered its part very well. I also prefer the D25NC55 to the DQ25, but the difference is partly a subjective preference for the "sound" fabric domes. But I have a choice, and the Zirans stay in the system.

            So, what about the Tzu-Jan "magic". I think it comes from two things. The midrange is probably the best overall that I've heard anywhere. Really. That forms the foundation of the magic. But more important is that the Tzu-Jan does way more than you expect from a little speaker with a 7"x8" footprint and a 5 1/4' woofer. People say "I can't believe I'm hearing that!". That sort of magic is not reproduced in a shorter, rounder, J. Lo sort of package. Expectations are not exceeded in a wow sort of way.

            Maynard,
            Would you mind starting a thread on your opinions about the Vifa DQ25?
            Good tweeter, small faceplate, only $13. Great for the price. Subjectively lots of detail. But after a time, you realize the detail is on the attack, and the decay seems unnaturally attenuated. You hear the bell strike, but not the bell.

            That tweeter (XT) looks like it could be a real value, if it can cross low - there aren't many choices for small faceplate tweeters that can cross @ 2Khz or lower. It would SEEM to me that it should be able to handle a lower crossover than the DQ25, since it has a chamber and a larger surround... But I haven't tried it....
            Well, Zaph recommends LR2 at 2500 or LR4 at 2000, if I recall correctly. The Zirans are getting LR2 @3000 as a starting point. I think I'll prefer that to the DQ25 from what I've heard from the XT25SC50/90.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

              That was suggested a couple times, but it got lost in the scurry to try and find the problem and ruling out the source equipment.
              Dan N.

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              • #82
                Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                Maynard, I thought your Ziran sounded very smooth and non-fatiguing, but did lack a little life. Without measuring them I thought it sounded like maybe there was a little BBC dip. If so and if the BBC dip could be removed it might breathe a little more life into them, but possibly at the expense of being a little less non-fatiguing.

                As far as the TB W5-1685 not being as good as the MDM-55, you might be right. Even though I really liked the Coppers, that also used the W5, I thought it too sounded a little laid back for my taste, so it may well be that the W5 lacks some of the detail that you get with some of the other mid ranges.

                Brian

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                • #83
                  Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                  Originally posted by brianwalter View Post
                  Even though I really liked the Coppers, that also used the W5, I thought it too sounded a little laid back for my taste, so it may well be that the W5 lacks some of the detail that you get with some of the other mid ranges.
                  The midrange of the Coppers is laid back. However, I think it may have been a case of a little too much BSC on my part and not necessarily indicative of ultimate capability.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                    Originally posted by brianwalter View Post
                    Maynard, I thought your Ziran sounded very smooth and non-fatiguing, but did lack a little life. Without measuring them I thought it sounded like maybe there was a little BBC dip. If so and if the BBC dip could be removed it might breathe a little more life into them, but possibly at the expense of being a little less non-fatiguing.

                    As far as the TB W5-1685 not being as good as the MDM-55, you might be right. Even though I really liked the Coppers, that also used the W5, I thought it too sounded a little laid back for my taste, so it may well be that the W5 lacks some of the detail that you get with some of the other mid ranges.

                    Brian
                    There is a bit of a dip, about 1db on average, from 1000 to 4000. However, I think your observation about detail is probably the bigger issue.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                      Originally posted by maynardg View Post
                      There is a bit of a dip, about 1db on average, from 1000 to 4000. However, I think your observation about detail is probably the bigger issue.
                      For your next project Maynard, how about just adding a bass module for the Tzu Juans (hope I spelled that right). Seems like the only thing they're missing at all is the extended low end. And if you remove those duties from the AC woofer, it would probably open up even more.
                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                      • #86
                        Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                        For your next project Maynard, how about just adding a bass module for the Tzu Juans (hope I spelled that right). Seems like the only thing they're missing at all is the extended low end. And if you remove those duties from the AC woofer, it would probably open up even more.
                        you are a mind reader ..... sort of a Tzu-Jan-Ziran. I have the top module built. Any thoughts on the XO?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                          Originally posted by DougP View Post
                          No sign up sheet yet but you can mark your calendar for October 16th. I reserved the room yesterday.
                          Doug
                          Sign me up.

                          This is my first post here. I've been hanging out at the old "Bass List" for a long time but it's pretty quiet over there after a couple of moves. I'm the old guy with the cherry veneered MTMs that we didn't get around to listening to. I'll try to have more courage next year.

                          It was a great event. I was impressed by the quality of sound and amazed at what some of the smaller systems could do. I got to hear several systems using the BG Neo3 tweeter which I'd already purchased for a surround system but haven't got together yet. I really liked the Matrix system. I got to hear a nice selection of new music and have ordered a couple of CDs.

                          I have a couple of questions. What SPL at what distance were the systems set to with the noise track? Are active systems welcome?

                          Finally, thanks Doug and all the others that helped put this together.

                          Ron E
                          C-Note Iron Driver Build
                          The Cherry π's

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                          • #88
                            Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                            Originally posted by Ron_E View Post
                            Sign me up.

                            This is my first post here. I've been hanging out at the old "Bass List" for a long time but it's pretty quiet over there after a couple of moves. I'm the old guy with the cherry veneered MTMs that we didn't get around to listening to. I'll try to have more courage next year.

                            It was a great event. I was impressed by the quality of sound and amazed at what some of the smaller systems could do. I got to hear several systems using the BG Neo3 tweeter which I'd already purchased for a surround system but haven't got together yet. I really liked the Matrix system. I got to hear a nice selection of new music and have ordered a couple of CDs.

                            I have a couple of questions. What SPL at what distance were the systems set to with the noise track? Are active systems welcome?

                            Finally, thanks Doug and all the others that helped put this together.

                            Ron E
                            Ron,

                            If you are using the Iowa test CD the Pink noise was measured at 100db on the tweeter axis at about 6 inches. As a general run active systems take to long to set up for the event. However if they can be set up during a break or lunch then we can try and run them. It just depends.
                            Doug
                            http://dpeterson.home.mchsi.com/

                            I just checked and my "give a damn" is broke :D

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                              Hey everyone, Scott's "little" brother here. I wanted to stop by and thank everyone that worked to put on the event, it was a great time and a great chance to get to hear others hard work. I've had a chance to install soundeasy and play with it a little bit and I definitely have ALOT of reading and experimenting to do.

                              I finally got around to doing all the post processing and got all the photos i took posted onto the web. So if anyone is interested in some more pics of the same speakers feel free to have a look.

                              http://picasaweb.google.com/JonSehlin/IowaDIY2009#

                              Jon

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: DIYowa 2009 is in the books

                                Originally posted by JonS View Post
                                Hey everyone, Scott's "little" brother here. I wanted to stop by and thank everyone that worked to put on the event, it was a great time and a great chance to get to hear others hard work. I've had a chance to install soundeasy and play with it a little bit and I definitely have ALOT of reading and experimenting to do.

                                I finally got around to doing all the post processing and got all the photos i took posted onto the web. So if anyone is interested in some more pics of the same speakers feel free to have a look.

                                http://picasaweb.google.com/JonSehlin/IowaDIY2009#

                                Jon
                                It was nice chatting with you and your little... I mean 'older' brother. :D
                                Hope to see you 2 again,
                                Wolf
                                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                                *InDIYana event website*

                                Photobucket pages:
                                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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