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Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

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  • dlr
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    I think the defining issue of 'fit' would be with the style of the faceplates.

    The orig RS28A has a 1-piece assembly, and the whole face/grille lifts off. These have no flat-spot in the grille, and are probably WITH FF.

    The second gen has the flat-spot, and the face is a 2-piece assembly. The mounting flange is separate from the grille-piece. It is possible the grille piece could just be removed, and the diaphragms swapped. Non-FF units.

    These could also be difference in structures between the 3. The first might actually sit forward more at rest, the 2nd gen could sit further back, and the RSilkie could be more forward with a one-piece or 2-piece face.

    I'd like to know how the RSilkie is made as well...
    Later,
    Wolf
    I had a beta copy of the original RS28A sent to my by Darren for testing prior to its initial release. It wasn't a one-piece affair. It had a faceplate, a grill cover section and the diaphragm assembly, all separate. My later purchased copies were essentially the same and I see no difference in the pictures of the current offering. You can see the construction from my test page here where the faceplate is already removed:



    It would make no sense for manufacturing costs to make them differently. The assembly line costs should dictate nearly identical construction. It should be possible to remove the grill cover section, then take out the grill. Someone will have to verify this, of course.

    The question on FF is a good one, but it ought to say in the description of each if it is used, although that's no guarantee, of course. Neither description indicates FF is used. This also makes manufacturing sense in that the only thing that should be different is the diaphragm material.

    dlr

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  • Wolf
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    I think the defining issue of 'fit' would be with the style of the faceplates.

    The orig RS28A has a 1-piece assembly, and the whole face/grille lifts off. These have no flat-spot in the grille, and are probably WITH FF.

    The second gen has the flat-spot, and the face is a 2-piece assembly. The mounting flange is separate from the grille-piece. It is possible the grille piece could just be removed, and the diaphragms swapped. Non-FF units.

    These could also be difference in structures between the 3. The first might actually sit forward more at rest, the 2nd gen could sit further back, and the RSilkie could be more forward with a one-piece or 2-piece face.

    I'd like to know how the RSilkie is made as well...
    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • dlr
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by critofur View Post
    The metal grills are different. The sillk? dome protrudes further and the shape of the protective metal grill thus has to stick out further also.

    I have both, so I could see if the diaphragm fits (I would assume it does).

    You'd have to pop the metal grill off, if you want to switch your RS28 metal dome tweeters over to the soft domes...
    That appeared to be the case from the photos. I'm curious about how the soft dome measures in the original without the grill. I doubt that anything else is different. The cost to convert would be half the cost of new ones.

    I'm also wonder what the consistency will be with the soft domes. That seems rather difficult for manufacturing.

    dlr

    Leave a comment:


  • dlneubec
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by critofur View Post
    The metal grills are different. The sillk? dome protrudes further and the shape of the protective metal grill thus has to stick out further also.

    I have both, so I could see if the diaphragm fits (I would assume it does).

    You'd have to pop the metal grill off, if you want to switch your RS28 metal dome tweeters over to the soft domes...
    If you don't mind trying to see if it the diaphram would fit (sans faceplate), that'd be great. I happen to have a RS28AS-4 body with a burnt VC (don't ask), so a replacement might be worth considering. If it looks like it will fit, I'll take a look at popping the grill off of my faceplate.

    Leave a comment:


  • critofur
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
    Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

    If so, that could prove interesting.:eek:
    The metal grills are different. The sillk? dome protrudes further and the shape of the protective metal grill thus has to stick out further also.

    I have both, so I could see if the diaphragm fits (I would assume it does).

    You'd have to pop the metal grill off, if you want to switch your RS28 metal dome tweeters over to the soft domes...

    Leave a comment:


  • dlneubec
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

    If so, that could prove interesting.:eek:

    Leave a comment:


  • critofur
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Got some RS28F in today, only opened one up to look at it so far - good news - it has the same measured sensitivity sticker on the side and this one says 90.2 db

    Will have to measure this sucker this weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
    send me an email or pm
    Sent you a pm.
    Thanks Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff B.
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by davepellegrene View Post
    I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
    Dave
    send me an email or pm

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff B.
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by markk View Post
    I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

    A couple of notes.

    Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

    I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

    I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

    I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones. :eek:

    Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...
    I think Dennis is a brilliant speaker designer, and I always appreciate his insights. This would probably explain why Silver Flute woofers sound kinda wooly, and why ribbons sound thin. :D

    Leave a comment:


  • markk
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

    A couple of notes.

    Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

    I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

    I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

    I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones. :eek:

    Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
    Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

    Jeff
    I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff B.
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by davepellegrene View Post
    I have waited for a response for 24 hours. I hope he PMed you. Since I heard these at InDIYana I have gatherer all the info you have put out there. I have been playing with it in PCD. I'd share it with you but you would probably say " not quite sure what you're trying to do there,but". Any way I sure hope you do share it someday. Unbelievable sound came out of those.
    Dave
    Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

    Jeff

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff B.
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by PunkSweeper View Post
    I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

    Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

    I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.
    A molecular super tweeter should have great dispersion :D

    Leave a comment:


  • PunkSweeper
    replied
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
    Let's be fair to Pete here. You did make a point of this. However, I doubt you want a paper cone tweeter to go with your paper cone midbass, or a woven carbon fiber tweeter, or woven kevlar tweeter (although that's been done, just not very well). And you don't want a soft silk cone midbass either. So, what would a soft dome be a material match to in midbasses? Even in metal drivers it's not really a match since the material thickness and shape for an aluminum woofer and a tweeter are very different in ways to really matter. In the end, to me anyway, this postion of matching materials just doesn't seem to hold up very well. But, as you say, "to each his own."
    I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

    Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

    I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.

    Leave a comment:

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