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Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

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  • #46
    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

    Originally posted by PunkSweeper View Post
    Predictable response much? :p
    I guess you can tell I'm not much into "matching" driver materials for any other reason than aesthetic.

    Hey, you brought up matching driver materials, not me . . . :D
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    • #47
      Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

      I guess you can tell I'm not much into "matching" driver materials for any other reason than aesthetic.

      Hey, you brought up matching driver materials, not me . . . :D
      To each is own.
      18hz is scary.

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      • #48
        Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

        Originally posted by PunkSweeper View Post
        To each is own.
        Let's be fair to Pete here. You did make a point of this. However, I doubt you want a paper cone tweeter to go with your paper cone midbass, or a woven carbon fiber tweeter, or woven kevlar tweeter (although that's been done, just not very well). And you don't want a soft silk cone midbass either. So, what would a soft dome be a material match to in midbasses? Even in metal drivers it's not really a match since the material thickness and shape for an aluminum woofer and a tweeter are very different in ways to really matter. In the end, to me anyway, this postion of matching materials just doesn't seem to hold up very well. But, as you say, "to each his own."
        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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        • #49
          Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

          Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
          I'll tell you what, Dirk. If you are really interested in building the speaker. Let me know and I'll share the design with you.

          Jeff
          I have waited for a response for 24 hours. I hope he PMed you. Since I heard these at InDIYana I have gatherer all the info you have put out there. I have been playing with it in PCD. I'd share it with you but you would probably say " not quite sure what you're trying to do there,but". Any way I sure hope you do share it someday. Unbelievable sound came out of those.
          Dave
          http://www.pellegreneacoustics.com/

          Trench Seam Method for MDF
          https://picasaweb.google.com/101632266659473725850

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          • #50
            Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

            Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
            Let's be fair to Pete here. You did make a point of this. However, I doubt you want a paper cone tweeter to go with your paper cone midbass, or a woven carbon fiber tweeter, or woven kevlar tweeter (although that's been done, just not very well). And you don't want a soft silk cone midbass either. So, what would a soft dome be a material match to in midbasses? Even in metal drivers it's not really a match since the material thickness and shape for an aluminum woofer and a tweeter are very different in ways to really matter. In the end, to me anyway, this postion of matching materials just doesn't seem to hold up very well. But, as you say, "to each his own."
            I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

            Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

            I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.
            18hz is scary.

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            • #51
              Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

              Originally posted by PunkSweeper View Post
              I hate to drag this on, but I'm not too keen on paper cone mid basses, let alone paper cone tweeters, although I'm pretty sure the last paper tweeter design is from 1979.

              Also, I'm pretty sure a fabric tweeter will behave more like a paper cone as far as breakup, timbre, etc. than a metal cone. Perhaps I should have said that I don't like to mix "soft" and "hard" diaphragm materials.

              I am, however, listening to paper tweeters right now. They're paired with coated Carbon Fiber woofers and High Polymer Molecular super tweeters. Go figure.
              A molecular super tweeter should have great dispersion :D
              Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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              • #52
                Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                Originally posted by davepellegrene View Post
                I have waited for a response for 24 hours. I hope he PMed you. Since I heard these at InDIYana I have gatherer all the info you have put out there. I have been playing with it in PCD. I'd share it with you but you would probably say " not quite sure what you're trying to do there,but". Any way I sure hope you do share it someday. Unbelievable sound came out of those.
                Dave
                Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

                Jeff
                Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                • #53
                  Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                  Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                  Do you really want to build a pair? Make the commitment and I will share the design.

                  Jeff
                  I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
                  Dave
                  http://www.pellegreneacoustics.com/

                  Trench Seam Method for MDF
                  https://picasaweb.google.com/101632266659473725850

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                    I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

                    A couple of notes.

                    Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

                    I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

                    I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

                    I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones. :eek:

                    Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...
                    audioheuristics isn't around right now...

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                    • #55
                      Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                      Originally posted by markk View Post
                      I'm looking forward to testing this. Charlie should be letting me borrow his pair that's coming.

                      A couple of notes.

                      Metal cones and domes generally have a tad less distortion than their soft dome counterparts. What this means in an audible sense is anyone's guess. Not much would be mine if the distortion differences are small...still, it might influence your choice of low end xover.

                      I think that there is no good reason to assume drivers of the same material, or hard/soft go better together. Each has a slightly different set of tradeoffs.

                      I picked a metal dome (the DXT) to go with a paper cone, the ER18. A soft dome tweeter would not have been as good since no corresponding DXT type soft dome exists. Nonetheless it's not a drawback-in fact there is no other choice that works as well in terms of off axis response.

                      I think Dennis M's comments still apply. Shiny metal domes sound bright since they look bright. Of course, black metal domes are much more refined because, well, they are black, and have a subdued low key fine black metal mesh, making them audibly stealthy... There must be some sort of analogous rule that covers using soft dome tweeters and paper cones. :eek:

                      Anyway, we'll see how these test out. Now if PE would only come out with a DXT type horn...
                      I think Dennis is a brilliant speaker designer, and I always appreciate his insights. This would probably explain why Silver Flute woofers sound kinda wooly, and why ribbons sound thin. :D
                      Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                      • #56
                        Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                        Originally posted by davepellegrene View Post
                        I would definitely build a pair of them if you want to share the design.
                        Dave
                        send me an email or pm
                        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                        • #57
                          Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                          Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                          send me an email or pm
                          Sent you a pm.
                          Thanks Dave
                          http://www.pellegreneacoustics.com/

                          Trench Seam Method for MDF
                          https://picasaweb.google.com/101632266659473725850

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                          • #58
                            Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                            Got some RS28F in today, only opened one up to look at it so far - good news - it has the same measured sensitivity sticker on the side and this one says 90.2 db

                            Will have to measure this sucker this weekend.
                            "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

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                            • #59
                              Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                              Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

                              If so, that could prove interesting.:eek:
                              Dan N.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Hmm, Dayton RS28F - F??? What have we here?

                                Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                                Here is a question that Curt C. posted in over at HtGuide. Will the replacement silk dome diaphrams for the RS28F-4 fit in the body of the metal dome RS28A?

                                If so, that could prove interesting.:eek:
                                The metal grills are different. The sillk? dome protrudes further and the shape of the protective metal grill thus has to stick out further also.

                                I have both, so I could see if the diaphragm fits (I would assume it does).

                                You'd have to pop the metal grill off, if you want to switch your RS28 metal dome tweeters over to the soft domes...
                                "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

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