Can a preamp improve sound quality?

[lunchmoney]

I've got a preamp on the way (emotiva USP-1), because I need it for my system to run properly with the eq, cross the sub with the mains, blah blah blah... long story there, won't go back into it...

So I've been reading reviews about various preamps, and I'm confused when I hear people raving about how this or that preamp enhanced the sound quality of their system...

Say what?

I thought the job of a preamp was to be completely transparent (or as close as possible)... essentially just acting as a volume control for the whole system and managing the various inputs...

I would think that the greatest preamp on earth would sound like... well... like "nothing"... but people are writing poetry about these things.

So can a preamp really make a system sound better than if it simply weren't there? Or are these reviews I'm reading nothing more than placebo-induced euphoria?

[MSaturn]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

Per the subject line:

Sh*t no.

No device in a signal path will "improve" sound. It can only be passed or degraded. Euphonic distortion can be added, but that is distortion, per its name.

[lunchmoney]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

That's what I thought.

It's unreal how people get carried away describing these things.

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

A quality preamp can make your system sound less bad(every piece of gear you pass the signal through degrades it) than an inferior preamp.

[Guest]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

A preamp is about the only setup I've used for decades... with a couple integrated amps here 'n' there. With separates, you can match your preferred "colorations" to suite a particular system... just like drivers in DIY.

And there is a very large range of "sound" using seperates... vintage really provides the most versatility, from tubes to solid state with many different design goals.

Same with [vintage] phono cartridges... some with very "musical" contributions to a system.

[Æ]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

If your new preamp sounds better than your old preamp, then it would obviously be an improvement. I personally consider preamp performance/quality to be more important than amplifier quality.

[lunchmoney]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

A quality preamp can make your system sound less bad(every piece of gear you pass the signal through degrades it) than an inferior preamp.

Sure... but this doesn't explain the impassioned poetry people exclaim about these things... typical audiophile melodrama I guess....

Here's an example of an independent review of a preamp... one of countless examples of course:

"the Sunfire preamp yields an amazingly emotional, totally involving audio experience. It yanks you right into the heart of a performance. Pluck almost any recording from your collection and play it though the Sunfire and you are in for a musical love fest"

How does one get from "sounds way less bad" to this nonsense?

[waynew]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

Lunch,

I switched from an integrated to a Pre/Power set up, and I am in agreement with you. My preamp is very transparent, and it gives me more options than an integrated. It didn't do any of the amazing things that I read about it in the reviews...other than it didn't add anything to the sound...which I think is a good thing. I use it with a power amp and also as a volume control for my Jolida Integrated Tube Amp. Upon comparison, I don't find any difference in sound on the Jolida using the Preamp vs. not using the preamp. Again, I take this to be a very good thing. I will say this much, I have compared a lot of integrated amps, and some do sound quite different than others, but it falls into the catagory of personal taste. For instance, I really, really like the midrange of an Arcam FMJ 32...it is awesome, but it lacks the bass and treble of a Musical Fidelity...so what to do? I find that I get closest to both of those preferences with a pre/pro set up.

Regards,
Wayne

[moosespeaker]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

Lunch - To quote Colonel Potter, It is nothing but "Horse Pucky". :eek: Just audio orgasmic double talk for "If I spent all this money, it must yield a clearer, well defined audio signal which is reflected by this endless stream of superlative adjectives which I copied from a thesaurus."

Just my $ 0.02 worth.

George

[mzisserson]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

I know I know, running a turntable through a single opamp with a stepped attenuator to an amp blah blah blah. :rolleyes: Signal purity through 18AWG zip Cord, on and on... The DAC In your cdplayer does the same as your dac in the Ultracurve, yet you notices immediate and drastic improvement before even using any of its features. Why couldn't a pre be the same? Most pre's contain signal conditioning and carefully controlled gain structure of the signal. Furthermore if the input/output impedances are matched, or better matched without them knowing, the power factor is better and that can DRASTICALLY improve sound.

Dude, you can believe 4 or 5 people on this forum, the rest of the audio world who uses preamps, or use your ears. Easy as that.

Edit: to elaborate. Anything in the signal will effect its sound. Good, bad or neutral. I do not care if its the gain stage in an integrated, or a dedicated pre, or a loose connection. Pre's have their own sonic signatures, just like amps, and speakers, and caps (thought I would sneak that in there). To think otherwise is, well, "wishing- everything-was-perfect-because-i-do-not-want-to-spend-money-on-good-gear-euphoria". Herding instincts runs ramped around here too. A few will say something is a waste of money, or not good and everyone nods and smiles along.

Though, you never hear of their systems, or anything other than their speaker feedback, which is usually negitave. What do they use? Where is their MEASURED PROOF that a preamp cannot improve sound. Its funny how they can generate these arguments with gaping holes, yet be the first to ask for proof if someone steps up and disagrees. No personal jabs meant either. It just can be relentless at times.


That's where the use your ears part comes in. Noone can make a system for you that sounds good. You have to.

Eh' sounds like you have made up your mind without even listening yourself... "Sure... but this doesn't explain the impassioned poetry people exclaim about these things... typical audiophile melodrama I guess...." Its funny how you say "audiophile melodrama" yet you have only been in this hobby for a short period of time. What other "reference systems" or gear for that matter have you actually been exposed too? I think your comments may be just as melodramatic in this case my friend. It is easy to excuse what you do not understand or have limited exposure too.

[lunchmoney]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

I know I know, running a turntable through a single opamp with a stepped attenuator to an amp blah blah blah. :rolleyes: Signal purity through 18AWG zip Cord, on and on... The DAC In your cdplayer does the same as your dac in the Ultracurve, yet you notices immediate and drastic improvement before even using any of its features. Why couldn't a pre be the same? Most pre's contain signal conditioning and carefully controlled gain structure of the signal. Furthermore if the input/output impedances are matched, or better matched without them knowing, the power factor is better and that can DRASTICALLY improve sound.

Dude, you can believe 4 or 5 people on this forum, the rest of the audio world who uses preamps, or use your ears. Easy as that.

Edit: to elaborate. Anything in the signal will effect its sound. Good, bad or neutral. I do not care if its the gain stage in an integrated, or a dedicated pre, or a loose connection. Pre's have their own sonic signatures, just like amps, and speakers, and caps (thought I would sneak that in there). To think otherwise is, well, "wishing- everything-was-perfect-because-i-do-not-want-to-spend-money-on-good-gear-euphoria". Herding instincts runs ramped around here too. A few will say something is a waste of money, or not good and everyone nods and smiles along.

Though, you never hear of their systems, or anything other than their speaker feedback, which is usually negitave. What do they use? Where is their MEASURED PROOF that a preamp cannot improve sound. Its funny how they can generate these arguments with gaping holes, yet be the first to ask for proof if someone steps up and disagrees. No personal jabs meant either. It just can be relentless at times.


That's where the use your ears part comes in. Noone can make a system for you that sounds good. You have to.

Eh' sounds like you have made up your mind without even listening yourself... "Sure... but this doesn't explain the impassioned poetry people exclaim about these things... typical audiophile melodrama I guess...." Its funny how you say "audiophile melodrama" yet you have only been in this hobby for a short period of time. What other "reference systems" or gear for that matter have you actually been exposed too? I think your comments may be just as melodramatic in this case my friend. It is easy to excuse what you do not understand or have limited exposure too.

Wow, Mike. Don't hold back. Let it all out.

You're the last person I expected to catch a bashing from.

From what I understand, a DAC does a lot more than a preamp does, so it doesn't surprise me that the ultracurve made a difference there.

[waynew]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

I believe it's always best to take reviews with a healthy dose of skepticism. If the authors of those wonderful pieces of prose didn't use catchy words and descriptions, it may be that the companies whose products are the objects of such colorful worship and emotional description may quit advertising with them...and we can't have that! Hahaha. Let us never discount the psychoacoustic effect of the written word or a hefty price tag! I once had a guy tell me that when he switched to a different equipment rack, the veil was lifted and his CD's sound much better than with his old rack. He did this with a straight face, telling me that the rack was easily worth the $4K he paid for it...I was unable to maintain my composure and laughed until I nearly wet myself. Upon investigating the rack, I informed him that I could have made a clone of it for him for less than $600 bucks (to be fair, it did use nice components). What can you do...I just enjoy it...it makes me giggle, and every now and then, you do get a tidbit that is worthwhile!

Edit - I do find that amps and preamps do sound different. I just don't use emotional terms or words like "rythm and pace", and "lifting of the veil" to describe them. I tend to look for differences in the soundstage, prevalence of certain instruments or clarity of certain sounds when one is compared to the other. I also look for a difference in the sound of the treble, midrange and bass, as well as the image (is it forward, relaxed, diffuse, head in a vice) Is the phasing correct...etc.
YMMV

WayneW

[BasTek]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

That's what I thought.

It's unreal how people get carried away describing these things.

That's nothing. There are (otherwise sane? ) people who cryo treat wall outlets and burn in audio racks. Not audiophiles but i don't have a proper name for them.
I usually choose components based on looks, quality of construction, and functions that i need and of course price. Speakers and analog sources need a SQ check. Everything i got so far sounds great to me. (Even my pro amps).

[Æ]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

Audiophools.

That's nothing. There are (otherwise sane? ) people who cryo treat wall outlets and burn in audio racks. Not audiophiles but i don't have a proper name for them.
I usually choose components based on looks, quality of construction, and functions that i need and of course price. Speakers and analog sources need a SQ check. Everything i got so far sounds great to me. (Even my pro amps).

[Andy_G]

Re: Can a preamp improve sound quality?

I know I know, running a turntable through a single opamp with a stepped attenuator to an amp blah blah blah. :rolleyes: Signal purity through 18AWG zip Cord, on and on... The DAC In your cdplayer does the same as your dac in the Ultracurve, yet you notices immediate and drastic improvement before even using any of its features. Why couldn't a pre be the same? Most pre's contain signal conditioning and carefully controlled gain structure of the signal. Furthermore if the input/output impedances are matched, or better matched without them knowing, the power factor is better and that can DRASTICALLY improve sound.

Dude, you can believe 4 or 5 people on this forum, the rest of the audio world who uses preamps, or use your ears. Easy as that.

Edit: to elaborate. Anything in the signal will effect its sound. Good, bad or neutral. I do not care if its the gain stage in an integrated, or a dedicated pre, or a loose connection. Pre's have their own sonic signatures, just like amps, and speakers, and caps (thought I would sneak that in there). To think otherwise is, well, "wishing- everything-was-perfect-because-i-do-not-want-to-spend-money-on-good-gear-euphoria". Herding instincts runs ramped around here too. A few will say something is a waste of money, or not good and everyone nods and smiles along.

Though, you never hear of their systems, or anything other than their speaker feedback, which is usually negitave. What do they use? Where is their MEASURED PROOF that a preamp cannot improve sound. Its funny how they can generate these arguments with gaping holes, yet be the first to ask for proof if someone steps up and disagrees. No personal jabs meant either. It just can be relentless at times.


That's where the use your ears part comes in. Noone can make a system for you that sounds good. You have to.

Eh' sounds like you have made up your mind without even listening yourself... "Sure... but this doesn't explain the impassioned poetry people exclaim about these things... typical audiophile melodrama I guess...." Its funny how you say "audiophile melodrama" yet you have only been in this hobby for a short period of time. What other "reference systems" or gear for that matter have you actually been exposed too? I think your comments may be just as melodramatic in this case my friend. It is easy to excuse what you do not understand or have limited exposure too.

I agree with everything above.. but I think you do have to admit, that some people do tend to get overly "flowery" in their description ! :D

There is always the potential for audio components to treat the signal slightly more, or less, perfectly, or just differently, hence always the potential for audible differences to occur.