Flex Your PCD Mettle:

[Squidspeak]

Re: Need help with crossover

Hey Neo Dan is the sub in the picture a tapped horn, also what driver. Sorry for
the hijack

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

Hi,
Yes that's a TH, the driver is the B&C 18SW115-4.

Not that you asked, but to complete the system description... The amp that I run with it with makes just over 360v p-p, and with most material this combo also runs ~105°F unless abused.

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

I have modeled 3 12" drivers commonly used in the econowave builds. The TD12, 3012LF, and 2512. Let me know what you think and whether or not you see any issues with the sims. Also, if there is a preference SQ wise, let me know. The deltalite and TD have the most ipressive specs n paper. THe TD wins the motor strength battle, while the 2512 takes the cone weight title.

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

Kappalite 3012LF

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

Td12m


[ATTACH=CONFIG]40394[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]40395[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]40396[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]40397[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]40398[/ATTACH]

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

Those look interesting, but it's hard to make a suggestion based on just a woofer. How you intend to use these and where are also important. The AE driver is very deep, it's a 2" coil, and availability has been problematic...

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

This is a wandering into the world of HE and constant directivity. It is for music and not HT. my room is 14x 16, open on one side. The speakers will be on the 16' wall. I run Class A Nelson Pass amps. Considering running compression driver of current driven amp(F2J), as Jean Michael Le Claude says it improves the performance of compression drivers. I have other big boy amps for the low end, if needed. Really a test of whether or not a HE system with good distortion numbers will show me something different from the amplifiers.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

For me if I were starting again with a 12" and wanted a narrow WG I would use the Faital 12PR300 that I have experience with, and I would try the new JBL 1.5" WG with the 2432H as a starting point.


If width were no concern I'd be after some 4722HF and maybe the new Faital 18FH510

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

I modeled the pr300 in the same cabinet and it performs in a very similar fashion. Why the jbl waveguide over the Seos? Just to use a larger compression driver? I had looked into jbl like 4345 with 10" mid bass and 18" woofer, but couldn't get the misses to bite. The MLTL let's me extend the response of the 12" woofers in a reasonable way with minimal acoustic affects and EQ. 15" woofers are appealing, but pushing th above 750hz is a bad idea, no matter the selection, IMO.

Sorry about the Le Claude typo:D Stupid phone.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

That's correct, the suggestion is based on CD size/LF capability. 1.5" SEOS could also work IMO.
4345, the DD66000's were created for domestic situations like yours... :p
If you are looking to use a direct radiator LF and want control to the lowest possible then the 18" makes sense and visually balances with the 24" wide WG. That WG also has a 5° tilt that should come in handy.
15" loaded JMMLC mid-bass horns could be a nice option with these WG's too.

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

I have size constraint. Built 25 x 23 x 42 TQWT with Altec 416's and it sounded great. Just too big. Really trying to stay within JBL 4700 size range, as this seems to fit the room both acoustically and aesthetically. I may later add subs for down low, but with F3 in 40-45Hz range, these boxes should be plenty, in room. What is the part number on the JBL 1.5" waveguide? I have the QSC OS waveguide that mates to a 1.4" compression driver. It seems more suited for 10" mid bass, which was part of the original thought that does not look like its going to work.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

I'm not familiar with the QSC for the 1.4".
Having the the monitor + LFE setup was best for my needs. IMO not chasing bass with the midrange keeps things clean in the same way that not going below 2kHz on the small format WG/CD combo's work, go to far and Tina Turner magically appears LOL. Don't get me wrong I like my EconoWave WG with JBL 2408h, but the crossover is ~1.8kHz IIRC, to me it is a BANG for the buck win, and I know the limitations, hence the recommendations. I found the WG at Jacks, no #'s on these new parts yet. 2432's and 2408's are there too...

[buzzforb]

Re: Need help with crossover

http://www.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductAttachments/tn_v1n31.pdf

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr122i.htm

The 1.5" waveguide opens it up to BMS 4555, which I believe Zilch showed as being a quality unit. I wonder if BMS is not making the drivers for JBL. Jbl has a new D2 compression driver that is supposedly coaxial. Makes you wonder.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Need help with crossover

1 interesting/disappointing thing about the 4554 and 4555 is the way the expansion is so abrupt from the bottom of the throat to the mounting flange. I want to make an insert adapter to correct the expansion but I've not had the time or motivation.


The D2 is basically two of these sandwiched, not what I think of as a coax as they are the same diaphragm and both operate over the full bandwidth. It's an interesting way to get the same displacement of the 3" (2432H) domes without the dome breakup.
JBL bought drivers as OEM then bought the rights to produce them, ultimately they still buy drivers from BMS as they couldn't get it right. I think there are some versions of the BMS style ring radiators that are JBL "built" now.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

IIRC the HPR122i is a 1" throat, IMO the JBL PTWG's are much better to work with.