Flex Your PCD Mettle:

[MagicO309d]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

If you are going the 2.5 route with the PA310, what about then using a Dayton PA 15" or 18" for the .5 woofer for a little more bass extension. They're both still high value and the 15" at least also works in a "small" box.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Zilch, Pete, or anyone who can help, I've obtained a laptop, microphone, still shopping for the pre/phantom power(likely will be the one Zilch showed here or the M Audio mobil pre) but have loaded PCD and am wanting to figure it out.

Looking at the "Flex your PCD Mettle" I thought I would begin with the projects mentioned there, as the FRD, ZMA and so forth files are already there, and it seems like a good way to get used to this software in the beginning. I assume I can load in those files and hopefully replicate the results.

I have also loaded in the FRD consortium stuff for when the time comes to generate my own files.

When looking at the various files in the thread provided by Zilch and Pete, I've noticed some open differently than others. For example, the files in post #5 (FRD) open just fine, showing three lines of numbers. Others, like the files in posts #22, #25, or #108, open, showing files of the drivers, but they will not open revealing the three lines of info.

My preliminary questions are, whats up with the files that dont fully open (I'm sure that's how they are meant to be) and secondly, how can I insert these files into PCD to hopefully replicate Zilch and Pete's results?

I would seriously appreciate any help with this, it isnt being to intuitive for this old fart.

Thanking in advance,

Russellc

I'm an old fart too.

If files aren't opening properly, open them up with notepad or Excel, and delete any headers or footers, and just stick with the columnar data.

[Russellc]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

I'm an old fart too.

If files aren't opening properly, open them up with notepad or Excel, and delete any headers or footers, and just stick with the columnar data.

Well, they open, then showing a list of various drivers, but when you again click on them, I get the message that windows doesnt know what opens this file, blah blah. some open just fine (that is, other files in other posts). bear in mind I'm just talking about "opening" the file there at the post, not in PCD. I'm a rank newby at spreadsheet use, so here's a real stupid question, what do you mean by "open them with notepad or Excel? Yes, I'm that far behind.....

BTW the ones that did open showed up on notepad I believe. Are there any of these files that I can load into PCD to get an idea of how this works?

I havent the slightest idea of how to transfer these files into PCD....yes its that bad. If I can figure this out, I promise to dumb it down so others can too!

Thanks a lot for the response, VERY much appreciated. I have no small children around to show me computer tricks! :eek:

Russellc

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Well, they open, then showing a list of various drivers, but when you again click on them, I get the message that windows doesnt know what opens this file, blah blah. some open just fine (that is, other files in other posts). bear in mind I'm just talking about "opening" the file there at the post, not in PCD. I'm a rank newby at spreadsheet use, so here's a real stupid question, what do you mean by "open them with notepad or Excel? Yes, I'm that far behind.....

BTW the ones that did open showed up on notepad I believe. Are there any of these files that I can load into PCD to get an idea of how this works?

I havent the slightest idea of how to transfer these files into PCD....yes its that bad. If I can figure this out, I promise to dumb it down so others can too!

Thanks a lot for the response, VERY much appreciated. I have no small children around to show me computer tricks! :eek:

Russellc

Those are the FRD and ZMA files, and they need to be extracted from the zip archive. Right click and save them to a location where you can easily load them into PCD.

By default, windows doesn't know what FRD or ZMA files are for. If you try to open them, windows will say it doesn't know what program to use, but you can then select one. Use notepad or Excel to open them up and look at the contents if you want to.

[NEO Dan]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

@ BassMe
Methinks you won't get the 30hz you are looking for from the PA310's. I would suggest you skip requirement #2 and build with your final goal in mind. Once the speaker is high passed for use in an HT there is no benefit to 30hz extension. A single 12" driver such as the ones featured here are more than capable of taking full rated power in a properly designed cabinet when also high pass filtered for HT use. You are far better off spending your money on the higher end builds that feature higher efficiency and better compression drivers.

[BassMe]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Hi Dan thanks forthe response. My problem is that my number one use for these speakers will be music reproduction HT work is just a side note. Im going to look into make bass bins to match with the SR's that can be made into a stackable tower together. These tuba's from all accounts put out wicked bass, with small amp requirements which might keep it affordable.

I'll see what happens. Thanks for your replies everyone.

[Zilch]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Would just using 2 DC300's topped by a econo horn for highs work? The extra woofer would *i think* obviously help output significantly more volume and using the LPad you would just match the highs to this. I donno if this is completely ridiculous, but my special brand of logic dictates that 2 speakers playing the same stuff would have to be louder then 1 speaker giving you an overall gain in SPL while straining neither speaker as hard for bass extension providing crisper sound? I really do want to keep the system as 2 mains that rock not 2 mains with some subs that rock. Makes it easier to take to my friends houses and break their windows.

Reminding you of what I said earlier, a DC300 in the Standard does not need a second woofer.

The point of 0.5 alignment is the second woofer does NOT play the midrange frequencies. Watch the midrange in Skywave's video, and you can see that it is not changing SPL significantly, while the bass bumps up nicely when the second wooofer comes in. If you just run two woofers in parallel, above the low frequencies, they interfere with each other. Yes, two produce more SPL, and yes, it's commonly done in pro sound, but the interference messes up the transition between the woofer(s) and waveguide for home listening.

That third example I provided above is the TOTL JBL Everest II, a $60K speaker:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Product%20Information/Brochure_Everest_Eng.pdf

See how LF1 "props up" the bottom end of LF2 in the response curve of Fig. 1 on P.11 here:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/Owners%20Manual%20-%20Project%20Everest%20DD66000%20%20%28English%29.pdf

That's how "0.5" works. I don't know how WELL that will happen with PA-310, is all....

[Russellc]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Those are the FRD and ZMA files, and they need to be extracted from the zip archive. Right click and save them to a location where you can easily load them into PCD.

By default, windows doesn't know what FRD or ZMA files are for. If you try to open them, windows will say it doesn't know what program to use, but you can then select one. Use notepad or Excel to open them up and look at the contents if you want to.

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep fooling with it.

Russellc

[BassMe]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

Thanks for the reality check and further info zilch. I think instead of messing with a proven design I will combine a proven sub with the SR in 2.1 setup to maintain efficiency and I will just join the two cabs together. It will stretch my budget a bit but I think for the sake of simplicity and better spl and sq it will be worth it. I'll chime back in a bit later.

That $60k speaker is hectic. I hadnt ever really thought of how expensive they can get but $60k doesn't really surprise me I guess.

This decision beings me more in line with my original goals instead of going off on this tangent. The best plan only lasts until you engage.

[robertm]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle: Smaller Advent- Alternate Waveguide

I've picked up a pair of 220ti with Selenium HM17-25 waveguides. A bit smaller (about 6x6) than the JBL PT-D95HF-1s picked for the Smaller Advent speaker. Should I just drop in an L-pad on the existing crossover and go with that, or is the posted crossover design for the 220ti/JBL still valid?


HM17-25

http://www.critesspeakers.com/HM1725.pdf

[Zilch]

Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

There are two designs using the JBL 8" here. All I can suggest is that you try it. This thread describes a process; at minimum, you'll have to measure the result and compare findings with what I've posted here....

[bruson]

OT: Subwoofer for 25-100hz

Sorry for the OT post.

I'm looking for plans or ideas or another thread link here at PE so I can build 3 simple subs to be placed around my room. Like some sub makers recommend.

Using PE drivers and amps. Or maybe some other amps. I'll build the boxes.

I'd like the -3db to be 25hz. My 10" goes down to around 100hz.

TIA

Another OT:
My latest attempt to do a roundover for the B&C 10" to reduce diffraction.

Using Mortite clay instead of the foam I used before, for a smoother, more solid surface.
The sound above 1000hz subjectively got "smoother" less ragged. I didn't think it was ragged before.

FWIW

[NEO Dan]

Re: OT: Subwoofer for 25-100hz

My latest attempt to do a roundover for the B&C 10" to reduce diffraction.

Flush mount the woofer as you did the horn. Is that quarter round cut from PVC pipe? If so that was more work than the flush mount would have been.

[bruson]

Re: OT: Subwoofer for 25-100hz

Flush mount the woofer as you did the horn. Is that quarter round cut from PVC pipe? If so that was more work than the flush mount would have been.

Before I mounted the drivers I test listened to them as if they were flush mounted. They always sounded better with the mid about 1/2" more forward. I hated that because I knew it would be a pain mounting and diffraction control.
Flush mounting would have been easier, just not as nice to listen to.

The vinyl solid quarter round is from Home Depot that I cut to fit and softened in the oven at 250 degrees and curved around the driver frame.

[bruson]

Re: EconoWave Deluxe:




My xover ended up being close to Zilch's (above) in the tweeter.

The mid for me was 15uf and 2.5mH. Since the B&C 10PS26 and the Kappalite 3012LF have similar FR chart and some other similarities I decided to duplicate Zilch's xover, and listen.

I had to use 2 inductors to come up with 5.2mH (2.5mH iron core and 2.7mH air core) instead of 4.5mH. Sounded much better.

Changed the caps to 12uf.

Then I took off about 10 turns from the 2.5mH iron core inductor to try and come closer to a total of 4.5mH.

In doing so I removed the heavy duty semi cloudy tape wrapped 4 times around the turns to keep them tight. Replaced it with a thin clear packing wrapped 2 times around. Listening I heard a clarity up and down the mid spectrum I can't attribute to just getting lucky by reducing the turns. Though I'm sure that helped.

Bored, I decided to remove the white plastic spool the 2.7mH air core inductor was wound on. Used 4 tie wraps around the inductor. Like other air core inductors you've seen at PE and Madisound etc.

Even more clarity from the mids.

My guess is that the dielectric constant of the materials used on the 2 types of inductors degraded the sound. Going from a 2-4 dielectric constant, the plastic and tapes, to a DC of 1, air, and using a very thin tape on the other, made the difference.

Any other thoughts?