RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Of course you could always go active and avoid the "sensitivity problem" completely . . .

Ain't gonna happen with this particular build.

One day . . . ;)

[Deward Hastings]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

The problem I have now is that the Scans may be a little too low in sensitivity to play with the RSS315HF-4. So, I may have to go with the RSS315HF-8 and drop the sensitivity by 3dB.

Of course you could always go active and avoid the "sensitivity problem" completely . . .

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Looks like you're all set for the mids now... very nice!

I was going to suggest these... http://www.solen.ca/pdf/sb/sb15nrxc304.pdf

They aren't listed at madisound, but solen has them on order. I guess they're hot off the presses. Lots of sensitivity to work with!

Gordon

Yes, I did consider the SB drivers. But when the Scans were offered, well, what could I say?

The problem I have now is that the Scans may be a little too low in sensitivity to play with the RSS315HF-4. So, I may have to go with the RSS315HF-8 and drop the sensitivity by 3dB.

[gordoncalder]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Looks like you're all set for the mids now... very nice!

I was going to suggest these... http://www.solen.ca/pdf/sb/sb15nrxc304.pdf

They aren't listed at madisound, but solen has them on order. I guess they're hot off the presses. Lots of sensitivity to work with!

Gordon

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I do have a basement full of 15W/4831-G00 (same as 4531, just the OEM version), and wouldn't mind parting with a pair cheap. If you're gonna go, go big. This graph sounds good just looking at it

Oh man, I think you just made my day . . .

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

then again, there's always the Scan Speak 12MU/4731T00, or 15M/4531K, 15W/4531G, 10F/4424G, . . . anyone have any experience with their Discovery Series? The Revs and Illums sure would set me back a LOT more than I wanted to spend . . .

I do have a basement full of 15W/4831-G00 (same as 4531, just the OEM version), and wouldn't mind parting with a pair cheap. If you're gonna go, go big. This graph sounds good just looking at it

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Let me throw one more candidate(s) into the mix. The TangBand Underhung W5-1685. It's going to model very similar to the Usher, even the 4" W4-1720 version is going to be right around 89 db/2.83v. Either would be very comfortable with a 200hz crossover in a sealed box. Plenty of Xmax, very clean sound, easy to crossover, heat should not be an issue.

I just want to know where you are putting the casters so you can move this beast!

Well Lou, where would you put the casters? I'm figuring on bottom . . . ;)

Yeah, we're anticipating these weighing in at over 100 lbs. D, Rose graciously offered to take his HDF bending skills and create this version of curved sided cabinets. Walls will be about an inch thick.

The TB underhungs are really nice units. However, they tend to sag a bit in the midrange compared to down low. Here's Zaph's plot on it. The 4" unit has the same characteristic. I doubt they'll have the requisite sensitivity to pull it off, but I'll give them a go in PCD. The Vifa P11 has potential, however, the rising distortion in the midrange compared to the RS150 or 830883 gives me pause. The SB 5" driver looks like a candidate as well, though it's Vas is a bit on the high side.



then again, there's always the Scan Speak 12MU/4731T00, or 15M/4531K, 15W/4531G, 10F/4424G, . . . anyone have any experience with their Discovery Series? The Revs and Illums sure would set me back a LOT more than I wanted to spend . . .

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I like your original plan better than anything since. The Usher is a fabulous sounding driver, personally I much prefer it over the RS150.

[LouC]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Let me throw one more candidate(s) into the mix. The TangBand Underhung W5-1685. It's going to model very similar to the Usher, even the 4" W4-1720 version is going to be right around 89 db/2.83v. Either would be very comfortable with a 200hz crossover in a sealed box. Plenty of Xmax, very clean sound, easy to crossover, heat should not be an issue.

I just want to know where you are putting the casters so you can move this beast!

[philiparcario]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Don't meant to thread crap, but how do you like those TLR's? I love my TC120TD5's, once you nail the crossover that is ...

very nice tweeter. got them for 350 a pair. made them nicer!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I much prefer the coherence and intergration from a well-excuted three-way compared to four-way with a dome mid shoehorned in between two drivers that can cross fine on their own. I have never heard a four-way of this type really sound right to me, including ones that I built. Not that I'm perfect, but it was just that things always seemed to blend better without an additional driver in this range. The only time I would add a driver like this would be if it were a filler-driver for phase correction.

I think I'll be sticking with the 3-way concept on this, with the XO points right where they are, maybe going to 2000Hz instead of 1500 if I go with the RS150. I pretty much convinced myself after the music power analysis that even the RS150-4 should be up to the task for most any listening levels. Still, I really like the idea the HDS Exclusive working as a mid.

I've got a lit more modeling to do with some midrange candidates.

Moving the midwoofer down the baffle face is not really an option either. I get the most unobstructed volume for the RSS315 to work in by keeping the mid chamber in the upper part of the cabinet.

[dwigle]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

pete, what program did you use to draw the cabinet mock up? thanks

[Jeff B.]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Why resist>?

You could move the rs150 (in the picture) just enough to squeeze in the rs52. The internal chamber would then need to be reconfigured.

I am pretty sure that system could qualify as "ultimate"

I much prefer the coherence and intergration from a well-excuted three-way compared to four-way with a dome mid shoehorned in between two drivers that can cross fine on their own. I have never heard a four-way of this type really sound right to me, including ones that I built. Not that I'm perfect, but it was just that things always seemed to blend better without an additional driver in this range. The only time I would add a driver like this would be if it were a filler-driver for phase correction.

[brianpowers27]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Don't get me started . . .

Must

Resist

Temptation . . .




I'll just add the RS52 to the RS180-4 and keep the RS28.

Now how do I rearrange things on this baffle to make it work?????

Why resist>?

You could move the rs150 (in the picture) just enough to squeeze in the rs52. The internal chamber would then need to be reconfigured.

I am pretty sure that system could qualify as "ultimate"

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

The mid in this design is likely to see power well in excess of the factory specs. Obviously, an important issue is it's ability to dissipate heat. With it's longer, fatter (1.5" diameter) voice coil, the RS180-4 has about 3 times the voice coil surface area of the RS150-4. I would guess that the RS180's thermal power handling would be at least double that of the RS150. I don't think a single 5-1/4" is enough in this application. The RS150 may be marketed as a 6", but it is exactly the same size as most other 5-1/4" woofers. But Pete knows all this, I'm just being pedantic. I'm not voting for the RS180, just thinking that a 7" or a pair of 5"s should be the minimum for this type of design.

OK, let's get specific about the application.

Let's say, for instance, that a 500W amplifier is used to drive this system. If that 500W is only used to provide the instantaneous peaks in music, then the most dynamic of recordings will hit RMS levels of maybe 50W. Even with music of much lower dynamic range, like pounding metal for instance , peak to average ratio drops to around 5:1. That means 100W is delivered.

With XO points of 200 and 1500, the power is distributed pretty evenly across the drivers in a three way. So even when I have the amp reaching the 500W peaks, no driver will see long term power levels over 40W. So only under the most excruciatingly loud conditions will things be pushing spec'd limits. 100W RMS music power will be producing 110dB + in the room from the pair of speakers.

Now, if the intention is to drive the system to its limits, a larger mid might be in order.

But who out there has some capable TMs using 5.25" drivers with a nice 12" sub underneath to fill out the lows? And those are usually crossed around 80Hz. These will be crossed at 200Hz, making these mids work far less even than the typical sub-satellite arrangement.

For most "sane" uses, even the RS150 is probably adequate to the task.