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RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

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  • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

    Originally posted by raiderone View Post
    I just finished reading through this thread (referenced in from another thread on the RS drivers, thanks Pete). Very thorough and impressive writeup and documentation of the speaker build. Also, having another pair(s) of experienced ears certainly added to the evolution of the build.

    I like that the build has a completely passive crossover to keep things "simpler."

    Is there a finished crossover schematic that incorporates all the changes; padding down the mid/tweet levels, raising the the woof to mid crossover frequency, to the notches in the the SS 15W and the RSS315Hf?
    Sorry I missed this post raiderone. I hadn't drawn a schematic, just posted the PCD pages showing the values, from which a schematic can be created.

    But, I went ahead and drew up a more traditional representation. Below that is a shot of the PCD simulation using the on-box responses and the values in the schematic. The plot becomes inaccurate below 300Hz due to room interactions, but believe me when I say that the low end blends seamlessly with the mids.




    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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    • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

      Pete,
      I see a lot of designs (mine included) voice the 2 to 5 kHz region lower down in level.

      One question: how do you find vocal intelligibility? I find acoustic instruments sound more natural with this approach, but that vocal intelligibility suffers.

      Dave

      Comment


      • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

        Originally posted by DDF View Post
        Pete,
        I see a lot of designs (mine included) voice the 2 to 5 kHz region lower down in level.

        One question: how do you find vocal intelligibility? I find acoustic instruments sound more natural with this approach, but that vocal intelligibility suffers.

        Dave
        It wasn't an "on purpose" kind of thing, just sort of arrived at it via long term listening sessions. There really isn't a trough in that region in my design, as it's flat from below 800Hz to the diffraction bumps of the tweeter response starting at 5KHz. That accentuated region above 5KHz goes away off axis. And you'll also notice that the difference in level from 800Hz to 5KHz is just over 1dB. You could say that from 500Hz to over 10KHz, the response varies by +-.75dB . . . that's pretty darn flat.

        Others mentioned from the Iowa event that the midrange performance was the surprising, and pleasing aspect. Everyone expected a mighty low end, and they don't fail to deliver there, but it was the mid clarity that really stood out. Of course, a lot of that goes to the Scan 15W, but another huge non-contributor to the sound has to go to the cabinet construction of D,Rose. Those cabinets are dead, dead, dead, and stiff stiff, stiff, and massive. They image really well for something so large, and project a very believable sound stage with a good recording. Close your eyes and they just don't sound like a BIG speaker, but they do have big sound. Vocal clarity is something they truly excel at.

        If I bring them to Kentucky in November, I'll play an older jazz recording, that I think is Lena Horn, singing "Good Morning Heartache" that is a crystalline recording with the most subtle intonations meticulously captured. I swear I can see the her forming the words with passion when I close my eyes.

        I guess you can tell I really like them . . . :o
        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

        Comment


        • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

          If I bring them to Kentucky in November, I'll play an older jazz recording, that I think is Lena Horn, singing "Good Morning Heartache" that is a crystalline recording with the most subtle intonations meticulously captured. I swear I can see the her forming the words with passion when I close my eyes.

          I guess you can tell I really like them . . . :o
          I love they way they look and if they sound half as good, they're keepers.

          The Verve 50th Anniv. box set version of this is a good test track too, for vocal realism, cleanliness. Ella sounds like Raquel Welch looked.

          I compared one of my speakers to one of the high end Revels, and the Revel nailed Ella better, less "breathing".
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExmoiGZuiFQ

          Comment


          • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

            Pete, where in Kentucky are you going to bring them and on what date(s)?

            Comment


            • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

              Originally posted by johngalt47 View Post
              Pete, where in Kentucky are you going to bring them and on what date(s)?
              http://sites.google.com/site/ckydiy/

              Later,
              Wolf
              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

              *InDIYana event website*

              Photobucket pages:
              https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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              • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                Thanks for posting the schematic. Not too many components and without huge cap and coil values.

                Comment


                • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                  Originally posted by raiderone View Post
                  Thanks for posting the schematic. Not too many components and without huge cap and coil values.
                  Well, I do have 75uF and 60uF poly caps. They certainly make a statement on the XO board. The 4mH and 5mH inductors can also get large if not iron core.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                  Comment


                  • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                    Originally posted by Pete Schumacher

                    The guys at Scanspeak really got the name of the Revelator line right. They reveal detail and presence unlike most anything else out there. Vocal reproduction is so smooth and easy. And the sound of Nils Lofgren's live acoustic guitar in "Steve Don't Go" is as close to perfection as I can imagine. Tory Amos in "Pancake" is riveting, her voice doing harmonic stuff that just makes my jaw drop. I've been limiting myself to 45 minute sessions to keep my ears fresh, but I could just go for hours, especially with really engaging recordings.


                    I'm now to the point where I like them so much that I don't want to stop listening, disassemble, and then wipe the finish on them.
                    I think you mean "Keith Don't Go" ;)
                    What a terrific, dynamic recording that is too. One of my favorites for testing.
                    Steve Dont Go is what my fiance says to me when I talk about going out to play sports :p

                    Congrats on a great job Pete. They look, and judging by your modeling- probably sound fantastic as well.



                    -Steve

                    Comment


                    • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                      Originally posted by captainobvious99 View Post
                      I think you mean "Keith Don't Go" ;)
                      What a terrific, dynamic recording that is too. One of my favorites for testing.
                      Steve Dont Go is what my fiance says to me when I talk about going out to play sports :p

                      Congrats on a great job Pete. They look, and judging by your modeling- probably sound fantastic as well.



                      -Steve
                      Thanks. Yes, Keith Don't Go. Used part of that track in Iowa during the 10 minute demo.

                      I got lots of great feedback on the sound from the attendees in Iowa. I was absolutely honored to receive the most votes for "System I'd like to have in my living room." And because there was a collective effort on the part of 3 guys, (D,Rose - Cabinets; DoubleTap - voicing advice), I can only claim a part of the honors. The cabinet is unquestionably a great non-contributor to the sound, being very stiff, very heavy, and very dead. Not easy to do given the size.

                      Now, the tough part is coming up with something else to top these.

                      How about a 15" OB version?
                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                      Comment


                      • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                        Thanks. Yes, Keith Don't Go. Used part of that track in Iowa during the 10 minute demo.

                        I got lots of great feedback on the sound from the attendees in Iowa. I was absolutely honored to receive the most votes for "System I'd like to have in my living room." And because there was a collective effort on the part of 3 guys, (D,Rose - Cabinets; DoubleTap - voicing advice), I can only claim a part of the honors. The cabinet is unquestionably a great non-contributor to the sound, being very stiff, very heavy, and very dead. Not easy to do given the size.

                        Now, the tough part is coming up with something else to top these.

                        How about a 15" OB version?
                        I'm sure the curved cabinet design also contributes to the stiffness.

                        15" OB version...yes please.

                        I wish I had someone in my area to aid in the fabrication of enclosures for me as my woodworking skills leave alot to be desired... :o

                        Comment


                        • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                          Originally posted by captainobvious99 View Post
                          I'm sure the curved cabinet design also contributes to the stiffness.

                          15" OB version...yes please.

                          I wish I had someone in my area to aid in the fabrication of enclosures for me as my woodworking skills leave alot to be desired... :o
                          Me too. My cabinet maker for these is about 500 miles to the north. Had to make a drive to InDIYana to pick them up last April. He wants to build an OB version I've already drawn up, using the same construction techniques: curved front baffle made from layered HDF/epoxy. Not sure when he'll start fab, but it should be fairly soon. I'm thinking AE Lambda 15 OB for the woofer.
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                            Me too. My cabinet maker for these is about 500 miles to the north. Had to make a drive to InDIYana to pick them up last April. He wants to build an OB version I've already drawn up, using the same construction techniques: curved front baffle made from layered HDF/epoxy. Not sure when he'll start fab, but it should be fairly soon. I'm thinking AE Lambda 15 OB for the woofer.
                            And what for mid and tweeter?
                            "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

                            Comment


                            • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                              Originally posted by jonasz View Post
                              And what for mid and tweeter?
                              Haven't decided yet. The OB 15 is only 90dB, so I have a lot of options open to me.
                              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                              Comment


                              • Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                                I'm thinking AE Lambda 15 OB for the woofer.
                                Sort of off topic, what do you think of the RSS390's for use as the bottom of a 3-way similar to what you've done with the B's? Or is there something really special about that 8 ohm RSS315 that makes it stand out?

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