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RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

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  • #31
    Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

    Originally posted by DoubleTap View Post
    I do have a basement full of 15W/4831-G00 (same as 4531, just the OEM version), and wouldn't mind parting with a pair cheap. If you're gonna go, go big. This graph sounds good just looking at it

    Oh man, I think you just made my day . . .
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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    • #32
      Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

      Looks like you're all set for the mids now... very nice!

      I was going to suggest these... http://www.solen.ca/pdf/sb/sb15nrxc304.pdf

      They aren't listed at madisound, but solen has them on order. I guess they're hot off the presses. Lots of sensitivity to work with!

      Gordon
      Gordon
      --------------------
      Speaker projects:
      Microbe: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture005.jpg
      Extremish: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...h/IMG_0013.jpg
      Seas27TBFCG/VifaXT18: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture155.jpg
      in progress: http://s234.photobucket.com/user/gor...-way%20project

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

        Originally posted by gordoncalder View Post
        Looks like you're all set for the mids now... very nice!

        I was going to suggest these... http://www.solen.ca/pdf/sb/sb15nrxc304.pdf

        They aren't listed at madisound, but solen has them on order. I guess they're hot off the presses. Lots of sensitivity to work with!

        Gordon
        Yes, I did consider the SB drivers. But when the Scans were offered, well, what could I say?

        The problem I have now is that the Scans may be a little too low in sensitivity to play with the RSS315HF-4. So, I may have to go with the RSS315HF-8 and drop the sensitivity by 3dB.
        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

          The problem I have now is that the Scans may be a little too low in sensitivity to play with the RSS315HF-4. So, I may have to go with the RSS315HF-8 and drop the sensitivity by 3dB.
          Of course you could always go active and avoid the "sensitivity problem" completely . . .
          "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

            Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
            Of course you could always go active and avoid the "sensitivity problem" completely . . .
            Ain't gonna happen with this particular build.

            One day . . . ;)
            R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
            Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

            95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
            "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

              Yes, I did consider the SB drivers. But when the Scans were offered, well, what could I say?

              The problem I have now is that the Scans may be a little too low in sensitivity to play with the RSS315HF-4. So, I may have to go with the RSS315HF-8 and drop the sensitivity by 3dB.
              Pete,

              If you go with the scan mid, how about an open back tube? This would allow you to utilize the rear output of the mid to fill in and in a sense, increase its effective sensitivity. Anyway, that was my line of thinking for my project that I mentioned in the other thread. I believe Curt depressed the mids in the Statements about 3db, so you might effectively increase the scans in-room sensitivity by 3db or so, which would make it a better match for the RS315-4. The Scan has plenty of xmax, so this should not push it too hard at the 200hz xover point.
              Dan N.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                Pete,

                If you go with the scan mid, how about an open back tube? This would allow you to utilize the rear output of the mid to fill in and in a sense, increase its effective sensitivity. Anyway, that was my line of thinking for my project that I mentioned in the other thread. I believe Curt depressed the mids in the Statements about 3db, so you might effectively increase the scans in-room sensitivity by 3db or so, which would make it a better match for the RS315-4. The Scan has plenty of xmax, so this should not push it too hard at the 200hz xover point.
                I'll have to think about that one. Putting a tube in there isn't all that difficult, even though the front baffle is angled. I just wonder about all the odd resonances such a tube will introduce into the front, as well as rear acoustic output.

                Besides, moving to the RSS315HF-8 isn't a terrible trade off. I lose a little sensitivity, but the impedance gets a bit easier to drive too.
                R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                  Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                  Pete,

                  If you go with the scan mid, how about an open back tube? This would allow you to utilize the rear output of the mid to fill in and in a sense, increase its effective sensitivity. Anyway, that was my line of thinking for my project that I mentioned in the other thread. I believe Curt depressed the mids in the Statements about 3db, so you might effectively increase the scans in-room sensitivity by 3db or so, which would make it a better match for the RS315-4. The Scan has plenty of xmax, so this should not push it too hard at the 200hz xover point.
                  I was thinking that the shape of the current mid enclosure would make an interesting tapered TL. A small slot on 1 side of the peak would do it.
                  - John

                  "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
                  www.BuildTheDream.org

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                    Originally posted by HareBrained View Post
                    I was thinking that the shape of the current mid enclosure would make an interesting tapered TL. A small slot on 1 side of the peak would do it.
                    There's no benefit for doing so, since the signal is dropping rapidly below ~150Hz. Having an open back would add some midrange energy into the room.

                    I've asked the artist if he could squeeze in a PVC tube between the front baffle and rear baffle behind the mid. That way, I can try out the open back option, and if it just doesn't pan out, a plug could be fitted onto the back to seal the chamber.

                    But I'm really beginning to think that the best option is to change woofers. The RSS315HF-8 should match real well with the Revelator.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                      Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                      Pete,

                      If you go with the scan mid, how about an open back tube? This would allow you to utilize the rear output of the mid to fill in and in a sense, increase its effective sensitivity. Anyway, that was my line of thinking for my project that I mentioned in the other thread. I believe Curt depressed the mids in the Statements about 3db, so you might effectively increase the scans in-room sensitivity by 3db or so, which would make it a better match for the RS315-4. The Scan has plenty of xmax, so this should not push it too hard at the 200hz xover point.
                      I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.

                      If I raise the RSS315HF off the floor right next to the mid, around 17", the response in the region above 100Hz begins to drop off. If I adjust the bass alignment, to roll off a bit sooner . . .

                      The problem is with the XO and its interaction with the woofer impedance peak. The large filter inductor causes a rise in response at resonance that screws up a typical 2nd order filter. Then I thought about Daryl's third order bass alignment.

                      Voila!!! 3000uF in series with 1 Ohm between the input and the woofer cures the peaking at 60Hz, and along with the baffle diffraction loss by mounting it off the floor, response is smooth and reduced by a couple dB.

                      It looks like the Revelator and RSS315HF are back in league.

                      I know, I know, active control. But I'm determined!!!!


                      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                        Scan Speak Revelator 15W for a mid! This is going to be something. I'm not sure if you or other people agree, but after I extensively tested and compared the RS180S-8 and the Usher 8945P with various types of measurements, including my own HD sweeps, and with many filters (including C-E high order filter for the RS180S, recently), I'm now a firm believer of the importance of low tall order harmonics between 500 Hz - 1.5 kHz. I believe that this is because my ear (or our ear?) is very sensitive to the range of 1.5 kHz - 7.5 kHz in which the tall order harmonics arise from fundamentals between 500 Hz - 1.5 kHz.

                        By the way, I'm now using the 8945P up to 2.3 kHz with a LR acoustic 2nd order filter (w/ a couple of notch filters) and hearing no adverse effects of its 1.2 kHz dip and 3 kHz node on its non-filtered response.

                        Jay

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                          I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.

                          If I raise the RSS315HF off the floor right next to the mid, around 17", the response in the region above 100Hz begins to drop off. If I adjust the bass alignment, to roll off a bit sooner . . .

                          The problem is with the XO and its interaction with the woofer impedance peak. The large filter inductor causes a rise in response at resonance that screws up a typical 2nd order filter. Then I thought about Daryl's third order bass alignment.

                          Voila!!! 3000uF in series with 1 Ohm between the input and the woofer cures the peaking at 60Hz, and along with the baffle diffraction loss by mounting it off the floor, response is smooth and reduced by a couple dB.

                          It looks like the Revelator and RSS315HF are back in league.

                          I know, I know, active control. But I'm determined!!!!



                          An open back midrange will gain approximately 3dB in sensitivity in the average listening room set-up. You won't be able to pick this up well with measurements either, but your ear will. The increased rear response of the midrange compared to the other two drivers boosts the power response in the midrange's band audibly. I simply found that if I increased the level of my mid's frd file by 3dB my simulations began to match up well with what I was hearing and picking up with an RTA with the mic about 5-6 feet from the speaker. Just a tip.
                          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                          • #43
                            Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                            Just how do you stand a pot plant / photo frame / vase / or whatever dust collecting thing on top of such enclosures ? I cannot see them catching on ! ;)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                              Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                              An open back midrange will gain approximately 3dB in sensitivity in the average listening room set-up. You won't be able to pick this up well with measurements either, but your ear will. The increased rear response of the midrange compared to the other two drivers boosts the power response in the midrange's band audibly. I simply found that if I increased the level of my mid's frd file by 3dB my simulations began to match up well with what I was hearing and picking up with an RTA with the mic about 5-6 feet from the speaker. Just a tip.
                              Thanks for the tip. Now, the question is what a tube vs a true open back does to the response into the room. I want to use the mid down to the 200Hz XO point. Does the 3dB hold down to that frequency? It seems like a tall order. And I really don't want to push the RSS315 much higher in frequency.
                              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

                                Originally posted by max2tall View Post
                                Just how do you stand a pot plant / photo frame / vase / or whatever dust collecting thing on top of such enclosures ? I cannot see them catching on ! ;)
                                Pot plant?????? :eek:

                                But in all seriousness, the reason for that shape is more than just looks. The aerodynamic shape will allow the qualities of the drivers to reach the listener with less turbulence and therefore, greater clarity.
                                R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                                Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                                95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                                "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                                Comment

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